Asian confusion

[Carcazoid]

Christopher wrote:

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Two words: Cloud Atlas.

It might be an ok flick, but the ads make it look like Joe vs the Volcano meets The Butterfly Effect.

[Kirby]

sbk1234 wrote:

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William Shatner is Canadian, and he played an Amereican;And James Doohan was Canadian, and he played a Scotsman;And Leonard Nimor is an American from Boston, and he played a Vulcan.The list goes on.

Brent Spiner is a human and he played a android. What a dick, taking a role that they could have at least been given to a robot.

[sbk1234]

I guess Calculon was busy.

Seriously, unless I'm mistaken, many people are confused between the terms Nationality and ethnicity. Nationality refers to the Nation or country a person is from. I would ethnically be indestinguishable from someone from a nation like Canada, France, England, Russia, Australia, Poland, and many others. However, my nationality is none of these. Ethnicity refers to the physical traits one has that distinguish him as part of that ethnic group.
For example, one can be Black as an ethnicity, but American, Canadian, French, British, and so on as a nationality.

Also, ignorant question here. Please clarify for me. Is there a physical difference between people of different Oriental groups, such as Japanese, Chinese, Korean. In other words, without knowing one's cultural background, could someone physically see the difference between a Japanese person and a Chinese person?

[Christopher]

sbk1234 wrote:

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Also, ignorant question here. Please clarify for me. Is there a physical difference between people of different Oriental groups, such as Japanese, Chinese, Korean. In other words, without knowing one's cultural background, could someone physically see the difference between a Japanese person and a Chinese person?

Oh, definitely. In fact, there are multiple different ethnic groups within both Japan and China. The dominant ethnic group in Japan is called the Yamato people, while the dominant Chinese ethnic group is the Han, but there are minority ethnic groups in both countries -- especially in China, which has dozens of ethnic minorities, since it's so huge.

There's a theory that the Japanese and Koreans have a common origin, but it's hotly disputed because ethnic and political tensions get in the way of the science.

[Nerys Myk]

Christopher wrote:

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Oh, definitely. In fact, there are multiple different ethnic groups within both Japan and China. The dominant ethnic group in Japan is called the Yamato people, while the dominant Chinese ethnic group is the Han, but there are minority ethnic groups in both countries -- especially in China, which has dozens of ethnic minorities, since it's so huge.

There's a theory that the Japanese and Koreans have a common origin, but it's hotly disputed because ethnic and political tensions get in the way of the science.

Even in Europe there are various ethnic characteristics found in certain regions.

[Temis the Vorta]

Anyone who wants to see if a) there are systemic differences in how Chinese, Japanese and Koreans look and b) if you can tell what they are, take the infamous alllooksame test.

Last time I look it, I did better than random chance in tellng them apart, which does indicate that there's some difference I'm seeing. It wasn't too much above random, so either the difference is slight or I'm culturally insensitive.

[magarity]

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote:

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Anyone who wants to see if a) there are systemic differences in how Chinese, Japanese and Koreans look and b) if you can tell what they are, take the infamous alllooksame test.

Last time I look it, I did better than random chance in tellng them apart, which does indicate that there's some difference I'm seeing. It wasn't too much above random, so either the difference is slight or I'm culturally insensitive.

I only missed one on the all look same quiz when I first saw it (been a while). Perhaps because I lived in SE Asia a couple of years. I watched a Voyager episode and happened to think of this topic as the credits rolled Garret Wang's name.

The comments about the Canadian actors were particularly funny; I knew Native Americans have some variety of ethnicities but never heard of the Canadian ethnic group.

[Nerys Myk]

I suppose from an ethnic stand point Doohan would be Irish and Shatner Jewish. Which doesn't quite match us with Scotty be a Scot and Kirk being a WASP. Kirk is a Scottish name, so one could assume Kirk's ancestors were Scots.

[Christopher]

magarity wrote:

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The comments about the Canadian actors were particularly funny; I knew Native Americans have some variety of ethnicities but never heard of the Canadian ethnic group.

"Some variety" is a heck of an understatement, considering that they had at least 14,000 years to disseminate across two entire continents and branch out into hundreds of distinct populations. There are numerous indigenous Canadian ethnic groups, collectively called First Nations. (Actor Tahmoh Penikett's mother is from the White River First Nation; his first name comes from their language.)

[Cyke101]

sbk1234 wrote:

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I guess Calculon was busy.

Seriously, unless I'm mistaken, many people are confused between the terms Nationality and ethnicity. Nationality refers to the Nation or country a person is from. I would ethnically be indestinguishable from someone from a nation like Canada, France, England, Russia, Australia, Poland, and many others. However, my nationality is none of these. Ethnicity refers to the physical traits one has that distinguish him as part of that ethnic group.
For example, one can be Black as an ethnicity, but American, Canadian, French, British, and so on as a nationality.

Also, ignorant question here. Please clarify for me. Is there a physical difference between people of different Oriental groups, such as Japanese, Chinese, Korean. In other words, without knowing one's cultural background, could someone physically see the difference between a Japanese person and a Chinese person?

Just an FYI: in the US and Canada, using the term "Oriental" to describe people is considered antiquated, negative, and ultimately offensive. This movement started in the 60s and 70s when Asian Americans identified the term with American politicians trying to paint all Asians as "others," considering things like the Vietnam War and tensions with China, and echoes of America historically trying to paint the Chinese and Japanese Yellow Peril (WWII propaganda being among the most famous examples).

Using the term Asian and/or Pacific Islander, depending on ethnicity, as descriptor is preferable. For many Asians, the term "oriental" is synonymous with the N-word.

[Nerys Ghemor]

Another resource that helps with various ethnic types, and that I think was done in a very respectful manner, are these tutorials by majnouna over at deviantART. Here you learn how to properly draw people of various ethnic and racial groups, as well as about many of these groups' most ancient standards of beauty and other cultural tidbits.

http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/G...art-1-32046017
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/G...art-2-33220929
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/G...art-3-34877428

This really helped me correct a lot of problems I had in accurately reflecting people the way I wanted to in portrait drawings. It also made me able to spot where people are from very easily.

[sbk1234]

Cyke101 wrote:

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Just an FYI: in the US and Canada, using the term "Oriental" to describe people is considered antiquated, negative, and ultimately offensive. This movement started in the 60s and 70s when Asian Americans identified the term with American politicians trying to paint all Asians as "others," considering things like the Vietnam War and tensions with China, and echoes of America historically trying to paint the Chinese and Japanese Yellow Peril (WWII propaganda being among the most famous examples).

Using the term Asian and/or Pacific Islander, depending on ethnicity, as descriptor is preferable. For many Asians, the term "oriental" is synonymous with the N-word.

No intention to offend. I chose the term "Oriental" rather than "Asian" since I saw an ethnic difference in people from this region from people from elsewhere in Asia, such as India. I really do try to be sensitive to people's feelings in matters like these, so if I offended, again, I'm genuinely sorry.

[KamenRiderBlade]

Cyke101 wrote:

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Just an FYI: in the US and Canada, using the term "Oriental" to describe people is considered antiquated, negative, and ultimately offensive. This movement started in the 60s and 70s when Asian Americans identified the term with American politicians trying to paint all Asians as "others," considering things like the Vietnam War and tensions with China, and echoes of America historically trying to paint the Chinese and Japanese Yellow Peril (WWII propaganda being among the most famous examples).

Using the term Asian and/or Pacific Islander, depending on ethnicity, as descriptor is preferable. For many Asians, the term "oriental" is synonymous with the N-word.

Me being Taiwanese, I don't find it offensive. So I think it's only those who are over sensitive that would find it offensive. I doubt it would offend that many Asians or even Chinese folk.

[Forbin]

Christopher wrote:

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On the other hand, I gather that since the show was actually shot in Hawaii, they did feature a fair number of actual Asian or Pacific Islander actors, certainly more than most shows of the era.

They did indeed. But in the early seasons (I just finished a complete rewatch of the the series, one ep a week over the last 5 years!), it seemed that any MAIN story character was usually played by a non-Asian TV actor like the above-mentioned fellas. 2ndary parts were often Asian TV actors like Phiilp Ahn or James Hong. Background actors were often local Hawaiian talent. Naturally there were exceptions (female Asian parts were usually female Asians like Nancy Quan or France Nuyen). In later seasons it got better, but early on there were a lot of fake epicanthic folds on display!

[Christopher]

sbk1234 wrote:

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No intention to offend. I chose the term "Oriental" rather than "Asian" since I saw an ethnic difference in people from this region from people from elsewhere in Asia, such as India.

The preferred term there would be East Asian.

Forbin wrote:

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They did indeed. But in the early seasons (I just finished a complete rewatch of the the series, one ep a week over the last 5 years!), it seemed that any MAIN story character was usually played by a non-Asian TV actor like the above-mentioned fellas. 2ndary parts were often Asian TV actors like Phiilp Ahn or James Hong. Background actors were often local Hawaiian talent. Naturally there were exceptions (female Asian parts were usually female Asians like Nancy Quan or France Nuyen). In later seasons it got better, but early on there were a lot of fake epicanthic folds on display!

That's not surprising. I suspected that would be the case, but I haven't seen the show since I was very young.