We haven't had a conversation about tipping in awhile

[Roger Wilco]

A really nice waitress at restaurant I've been going once or twice a week for lunch for the past several months quit this week, kind of makes me sad. If tipping is being polite, then I don't understand why you wouldn't do it when someone gives you tasty food and is friendly.

MacLeod wrote:

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Upselling can put people off.

If they wanted it they would have ordered it. Sure highlighting a deal or an offer is one thing because it could benefit the customer. If the upselling doesn't benefit the customer it should be avoided.

Not the fault of the person offering it though. They are at least as annoyed at having to do that as the customer is for being asked about it.

[Kestrel]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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When I order a pizza, the driver gets $3 if it's a small order, $5 if it's a larger order, $7 if it's a large order and it's raining, and $20 if it's any time during the week leading up to Christmas.
There are people who say that if you don't have the money to tip, you don't have the money to eat out. Fine. I say if you don't have the ability to offer a reasonable level of service, you don't get a tip.

Both of those sentences at the end are fine by me.

It's odd though that you tip variably for drivers based on order size (who usually make minimum wage), but have a "flat rate whether $60 or $6" rule for restaurants.

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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So I paid for dinner (it was on me that night), and I walked back and put the $5 on the table. As I was walking away, I heard her say "Five dollars? What a cheap ass!"

Eh, I'd have probably had the same reaction as her to be honest, just not on the floor.

Ghostavo Fring wrote:

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Put me down in the "if you can't afford to tip properly, don't eat out" column.

Giving less than 10% if the service is adequate is simply unacceptable. My base tip starts in the 15-20% range (I tend to round up to the next dollar anyway.) It can go up if you are just crazy awesome, or down if you are terrible.

I have never just not tipped because I couldn't afford it. I have left meager tips or not tipped at all when I got bad service. I usually complain to the manager when that happens, too. Fortunately, it is not all that often.

As for the example in the OP... that's just unreal. I sure hope it is the exception. If someone can spend over $100 a meal, they can damn well tip for it properly. "Single mom," my ass.

[MacLeod]

Roger Wilco wrote:

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A really nice waitress at restaurant I've been going once or twice a week for lunch for the past several months quit this week, kind of makes me sad. If tipping is being polite, then I don't understand why you wouldn't do it when someone gives you tasty food and is friendly.

Not the fault of the person offering it though. They are at least as annoyed at having to do that as the customer is for being asked about it.

Agreed,

[J. Allen]

Vulture Capitalist wrote:

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Both of those sentences at the end are fine by me.

That works for everyone, then.

It's odd though that you tip variably for drivers based on order size (who usually make minimum wage), but have a "flat rate whether $60 or $6" rule for restaurants.

Not a flat rate, a base rate. It's $5 plus $1 for every friend with me. I usually tip more, but that's the base rate. So if you're a server, and you bring food to the table for me and 3 friends, you're already getting at least $8 from me alone (except in the very rare cases where I'm short). What more do you want?

Eh, I'd have probably had the same reaction as her to be honest, just not on the floor.

Really? You'd have considered me cheap for giving you a $5 tip on a $12 meal? If we play the percentages, which people seem to enjoy doing, that's a 40% tip!

[Kestrel]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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Not a flat rate, a base rate. It's $5 plus $1 for every friend with me. I usually tip more, but that's the base rate. So if you're a server, and you bring food to the table for me and 3 friends, you're already getting at least $8 from me alone (except in the very rare cases where I'm short). What more do you want?

And that's generous - lavish even - up to a certain point, but then has less and less value. Now of course, that point is far above most individual's bills.

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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Really? You'd have considered me cheap for giving you a $5 tip on a $12 meal? If we play the percentages, which people seem to enjoy doing, that's a 40% tip!

Well, but unless you left something out of the story, it wasn't $5 on $12, it was $5 on $60.

[J. Allen]

Vulture Capitalist wrote:

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And that's generous - lavish even - up to a certain point, but then has less and less value. Now of course, that point is far above most individual's bills.

I try to be generous. It feels good to give a hefty tip to a person who has given great service. I want good servers to know that I really appreciate it. The best server I ever had got a $20 tip because not once was my glass empty, and she was so quick to slip in and out with refilled drinks, taking away plates, and she was very polite. Now, I'm sure that's not a lot of money for some people, but for me, that's a LOT of money, but I felt she more than deserved it.

Plus, she walked over and gave me a hug when she saw the $20 under my coffee cup.

Like I said, though, $5 + $1 per friend is my base rate. That's for good service. Great service gets a better tip. The reason I even use such a system is so I can budget out what I plan on spending when I sit down to eat. I always plan ahead for the tip (save for the Steak and Shake incident, that was a very rare misstep).

Well, but unless you left something out of the story, it wasn't $5 on $12, it was $5 on $60.

It was $5 on $60, but that was counting 4 people, 3 of whom didn't leave a tip. It parses out to $15 a piece, though I had a little less than my friends. The thing is, I left a tip from my meal, $5, and I was the one she complained about. That's what irked me. I wanted to stop and ask her why she was upset with me, but I didn't want to embarrass her, as I was likely not meant to hear it.

Believe me, I find not leaving a tip when someone has given me good service to be unconscionable. One of the worst offenders are the aforementioned Amway and church groups.

The church groups are the worst. You get 20 to 30 people, all together, you do everything you can to make them happy, the floors are sticky, the tables are sticky and gloopy from the kids spilling their drinks and ice cream (and the adults can be worse!), they're always asking for refills, and sugar, and cream, and butter, and this order's not to my liking, and can I get some more fries, and finally, FINALLY, when you're all done, and they leave, there's no tip anywhere, save for a fake $20 evangelical tract.

I do have an exception to my base rate. When it comes to really large groups, like say 20+ people, I can't really put out $5 and then $1 for each, because that adds up really fast! I do give about $10 or more whenever I can, because I know that even when my little area is clean (I always bus my own table, it's habit), the rest of the table will look like shit warmed over. At that point, I usually hand the server the tip and apologize for the group, who is usually unaware.

I will never understand how everyone in a large group can just stiff the server and walk away smiling like it was some kind of blessing.

[Grey]

MacLeod wrote:

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Well of course one way to remove the abiguity is to simple increase servers wages to the minimum wage, True this would add cost to the food.

As for tips then it would be the patrons decision as to whether or not to leave a tip instead of feeling under preasure to leave one.

But if servers do better out of the tipping system they wouldn't in general want to change it.

But who would benefit more from the change the consumer or the server/waiter?

That is a good question. I've heard arguments from both sides, and the biggest argument I've heard from servers is that creating standard wages and taking away the tipping system would hurt both the restaurants and the servers in the end (and the customers who have to eat the higher costs), so...

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to these issues or think there's an easy solution. But everyone has a different idea of what is expected of them! And that expectation is changing all the time.

The Green Mushroom wrote:

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But until that magical moment when I get to tell everyone else how to live rolls around, you have to tip and you have to tip appropriately unless the waiter does something royally bad.

Biffette wrote:

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In those cases I tip imo generously.

That's just the thing. Everyone has a different idea of what "tip appropriately" or "tip generously" means. And no one's satisfied with other people's definitions.

Kreacher wrote:

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Yes, so do I. But since we don't, it's real annoying to have one owner of mediocre restaurants (turns out that he owns two other places that I've tried and not liked ) do it on his own and then pull an attitude when a customer politely questions it.

That's true. You think he'd be open to discussing his policies and why he implemented them rather than shutting you down and being pompous about the whole thing, especially when it's kind of an unusual system.

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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As for the tip itself, a hypothetical: If two plates of food comes to $40, and I tip $4.00, that's acceptable. If two plates of food come to $70, and I tip $4.00, that isn't.

Why?

Aside from the price of the food itself, what change in the service is required? Because I pay more for the food I should pay more for the service? When did "I should spend more because I'm already spending more" become a reasonable budgetary decision?

This is a really good question! I do tip by percentages but this is one of those ambiguous social rules to tipping that I don't entirely understand. I'd love to hear some more perspective on this.

[Yoda]

I see two solutions here.

Do what I do and eat at places where you bus your own crap. Yeah they'll probably have a tip jar somewhere, and still leave the tip field on the credit card receipt, but it's easy to ignore those and not feel like too much of a jerk. Some of these places are borderline classy. You know... the ones that give you a buzzer to tell you that your order's ready. As a bonus, when the soda machine is out amongst the plebs, you're not stuck with an empty glass while the waitstaff strategically ignores you.

Maybe that's not a fine enough dining experience for some of you. I feel for you. But you're just going to have to wait for solution 2 to become technologically feasible. That's right... Robot Waiters!

[MacLeod]

Grey wrote:

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That is a good question. I've heard arguments from both sides, and the biggest argument I've heard from servers is that creating standard wages and taking away the tipping system would hurt both the restaurants and the servers in the end (and the customers who have to eat the higher costs), so...

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to these issues or think there's an easy solution. But everyone has a different idea of what is expected of them! And that expectation is changing all the time.

Yes but in countries were tipping is not so culturally ingrained , restaurants seem to do ok.

[Scout101]

No, it's impossible, food would cost us $1000 a plate...

See, the people arguing that they should be tipped better, and more often, and for crappier service, don't want to really bring up that when it averages out, they do pretty well, all things considered. They don't WANT living wages to replace tips, they do better with tips. Just bitch about the bad ones hoping EVERY tip will become a massive tip, and they'll win. Providing a real wage will REDUCE their income, even if it makes it more steady and predictable.

That other places do this without the food becoming super-expensive isn't really being considered in the conversation. It's certainly something I'd prefer, though.

[RoJoHen]

Servers, the bad ones usually, have this weird sense of entitlement when it comes to tips. Most of them don't seem to realize the reason they are being tipped, which is to provide awesome service to their customers. I've worked with plenty of them; I know the ones that bitch, and I know the ones that don't.

The only time that bad tips really suck for a server is when you know you provided great service. Rather than thinking, "Man, those customers were assholes," it leaves you wondering, "What did I do wrong?" It's disappointing more than anything.

[Alidar Jarok]

Hence the reason I posted the first picture. For me, the question is always "what could the server have done more?" If the answer is that they couldn't really have done much, a high-end tip is fair. If you have actual complaints, a lower tip is perfectly valid. But a lower tip shouldn't be an excuse to save money.

[J. Allen]

Alidar Warlock wrote:

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Hence the reason I posted the first picture. For me, the question is always "what could the server have done more?" If the answer is that they couldn't really have done much, a high-end tip is fair. If you have actual complaints, a lower tip is perfectly valid. But a lower tip shouldn't be an excuse to save money.

Except that it's arbitrary. It's a tip, not a paycheck. If I feel $5 is a generous tip for good service, why is that wrong? Just because you're not getting the money you think you deserve doesn't mean I think you did poorly, or that you're justified to demand more.

[RoJoHen]

The problem is that tipping by percentage is an industry practice. The server has no idea what your intentions were by your tip; all they have to go by is the percentage. If that percentage is low, it may give them the impression that they did something wrong.

And yes, I do completely understand where you're coming from. In many cases the price of a meal doesn't necessarily reflect the quality or type of service you receive, but in other cases it may. In a more high-end restaurant, for example, servers probably have smaller sections (maybe only 3 or 4 tables at a time) to wait on because they have more steps to follow with each table. In that case, they need to maximize their tips. In a more relaxed setting like a bar, a server might have 10-12 tables at a time, so each individual tip doesn't matter as much because they'll all add up a lot quicker.

[J. Allen]

RoJoHen wrote:

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The problem is that tipping by percentage is an industry practice. The server has no idea what your intentions were by your tip; all they have to go by is the percentage. If that percentage is low, it may give them the impression that they did something wrong.

I feel that creating an industry standard, and by percentage, turns it from being a tip into a tax. Something required regardless of level of service. They've set the standard of what I believe to be a fair tip, and force my hand, because if I don't tip "industry standard", then I'm apparently a cheap ass, and that's just not right.

And yes, I do completely understand where you're coming from. In many cases the price of a meal doesn't necessarily reflect the quality or type of service you receive, but in other cases it may. In a more high-end restaurant, for example, servers probably have smaller sections (maybe only 3 or 4 tables at a time) to wait on because they have more steps to follow with each table. In that case, they need to maximize their tips. In a more relaxed setting like a bar, a server might have 10-12 tables at a time, so each individual tip doesn't matter as much because they'll all add up a lot quicker.

I do understand where you're coming from, as well. Like I said, I love to tip generously, but when it's demanded of me, it changes the relationship between the server and the customer, placing undue pressure on both by the employer.