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Old November 3 2012, 07:44 PM   #16
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

chrinFinity wrote: View Post
Seska could have been used to much greater potential had any combination of the following occurred.

1. If she had kept her cover for much longer

2. If she had survived Basics, left the Kazon, acquired her own ship, and kept up with Voyager to menace them repeatedly (possibly keeping up with the ship by gaining advanced technology in ways that violated the Prime Directive, further developing the theme that Voyager adhering to Starfleet principles may be holding them back in their journey)

3. In combination with #1, if she had been a sleeper agent, like Illiana Ghemor, and some external influence from the DQ (or merely the passage of time) caused her true Cardassian memories to return to her more gradually.

4. If she had "come out" to the crew as a Cardassian operative, but maintained good guy status ("We're all stuck out here together, Captain. It makes more sense for me to cooperate, remain a member of Voyager's crew. Admit it, Captain, Voyager needs the skills I learned in the Obsidian Order.") Of course then she would betray them later in the series and it would sting more.

5. No obsession with Chakotay. That was pointless and gross. Even Chakotay seemed more embarassed about it than offended.

6. Somehow she should have been returned to her "true" fully-Cardassian appearance. Perhaps the Doctor could have surgically altered her in any hypothetical scenario where she had been outed as Cardassian, but remained in Voyager's good graces. I would think that would only make sense... Her Cardassian appearance may offend some on the ship, however probably less than if the continued to wear the face of the Bajoran Seska (who was probably a real person at some point, most likely murdered by the Obsidian Order).
Agreed. I've never really been fond of Seska, and I honestly think she was written poorly more often than well. She was a victim of how alien races tended to get the one-note treatment in later seasons - Klingons were always warriors, Ferengi were always greedy and silly, and Cardassians were always overtly militaristic or sneaky bastards who'd stab you in the back when it was convenient.

I think the third and fourth options here would have been a lot more interesting. I think Martha Hackett is a decent actress too, she just could have been given a more in-depth character to work with.
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Old November 3 2012, 09:49 PM   #17
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

I thought she was an in depth narcissist. She makes decisions based on a need for power that don't make much sense for self preservation.
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Old November 3 2012, 11:22 PM   #18
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
What floors me a bit is that most of Seska's friends in the Maquis didn't even notice that she has a Cardassian name (as evidenced by a character named "Seskal" on DS9 - apparently it's a popular Cardassian name).
There's a reason Jews deustched up their names when the deathsquads started knocking down doors, or later when Germans, or those of German decent radically anglicized their names after and during either of the World Wars... Emmet VON brown comes to mind, but if you watch a movie 400 times, it's always on your mind.

chrinFinity wrote: View Post
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I can see why Seska tried to get her end around in Shattered, but why on earth was Seven so amenable when if a future existed where Janeway ran free, it could't mean the best for the Borg.
It was Scorpion 7 of 9... From a time where the Borg had agreed to cooperate with Voyager and not assimilate them in exchange for helping against 8472.

From Seven's perspective, she wants to help the temporally displaced Voyager crew resolve the "Shattered" problem so she can get back and help the Collective with their little problem in the Northwest Passage, which means saving Voyager as opposed to assimilating them.
Which just again proves that Janeway was the Scorpion and that the Borg would have kept their side of the deal if she hadn't screwed them over first... Even though Seven said back in Scorpion that she was waiting for the deceitful Humans to stab her in the back at the first opportunity... But that's not how voyager writes their stories. The Borg are evil and the ends justify the means which can never be evil if they are Janeways means.

Remind me, did Borg Seven enquire as to her health, and the state of the collective in the future?

She needed to think more fourth dimensionally.

Chakotay too.

In every time zone he arrived in before Basics, he should have removed Seska from play by some means immediately.

Temporal Prime Directive my ass.

The temporal prime Directive is a document that does not exist in the 24th century, we discovered this in Relativity, however Janeway just decided to adopt what she imagined it might say as wrote, after seeing how well it worked for the 29th century, in a pre-emptive move to keep those assholes out of her life.

Much the same as that has happened in my country, for emergency services you dial "111". After years of yank telly, drunk idiots became confused about what number they should dial for emergency services, and further became confounded that dialling "911" just got a "does not exist" dial tone, so the government decided to be useful by placing a recorded message at the end of every "911" call that said "This is not the emergency services number, please hang up and dial "111"" ...Which would have been all alright if people weren't dying in raging infernos or children weren't starving down wells filling up with rainwater, so the government finally coughed up the 20 bucks to redirect all 911 calls to the 111 service... Thus admitting that America is right even when it's wrong and is a busy body alien interloper who has no business interfering in our day to day business.

(I know this happened in England too. Anywhere else?)

And sometimes also, Bajoans during the Occupation would give their children sturdy Cardassian names to lessen the bigotry and oppression a notch from their three spined overlord masters... Oh.

I seem to have an intense sensation of Deja vu.

How odd.
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Old November 3 2012, 11:30 PM   #19
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

:: dials 911 ::

"The number you have dialed is not in service. Please check the number and try your call again. Thank you."
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Old November 3 2012, 11:34 PM   #20
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

teacock wrote: View Post
I thought she was an in depth narcissist. She makes decisions based on a need for power that don't make much sense for self preservation.
Janeway got lucky.

Consider if she had been on Equinox instead?

Ignoring the Captain and making alliances in secret to guarantee her safety and by extension the ships saftey.

Equinox could have done with that.

They weren't lucky.

Okies.

Imagine this.

If Seska hadn't been discovered.

What's her alliance with the kazon worth?

A kazon fleet in front of them secretly clearing the way and paying off officials.

Kazon allies bending over and presenting their rumps for the taking at every port of call.

Elves.

Janeway would have had Elves.

Her ignorance would have saved lives.

Oh yes, and the kazon wouldn't have been trying to destroy Voyager if they had Seska in their pocket constantly feeding them technology.

That arrangement could have gone on for years, and Cullah might have been so grateful that he allowed Voyager just to bugger off once it was about to leave his sphere of influence.

Afterwhich Seska would have picked new Elves to prop up her dimwitted arogant Captain.
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Old November 4 2012, 06:49 PM   #21
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

chrinFinity wrote: View Post
If she had "come out" to the crew as a Cardassian operative, but maintained good guy status ("We're all stuck out here together, Captain. It makes more sense for me to cooperate, remain a member of Voyager's crew. Admit it, Captain, Voyager needs the skills I learned in the Obsidian Order.")
That might have worked. Who knows, she might have even considered it. But she probably figured that if she had openly revealed herself as a Cardassian, it would have made her a target for assassination by the Maquis on the ship. She couldn't afford to take that risk.
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Old November 4 2012, 10:28 PM   #22
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

She does have the flaw of assuming everyone operates with the paranoia and self interest of herself.
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Old November 4 2012, 11:17 PM   #23
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

The Maquis are lazy.

They'd rather fight a war than pack up and box up their shit in the attic and freight it back to Earth.

How many assassination attempts did Paris have to fend off?
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Old November 4 2012, 11:38 PM   #24
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

But Seska would assassinate someone if she had reason to, or for revenge so she may see being on that crew as a revealed Cardassian to be far less safe than it actually was.
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Old November 4 2012, 11:47 PM   #25
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

teacock wrote: View Post
But Seska would assassinate someone if she had reason to, or for revenge so she may see being on that crew as a revealed Cardassian to be far less safe than it actually was.
She did apparently enjoy spending her free time rewriting a holodeck program to torture Tuvok just because he potrayed her in a less than flattering(yet very accurate) light.

She even worked in some C/S into it fanfic style! Not sure how she ever would've expected to get away with that if Tuvok had accessed that program while she was still on board, but long term strategy doesn't appear to be her strong suit.
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Old November 5 2012, 02:16 AM   #26
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
How many assassination attempts did Paris have to fend off?
Most of the Maquis probably just saw Paris as comic relief. Chakotay was plenty pissed off at him, but wouldn't try to kill him. Chak was a real Starfleet officer before he defected, after all.

However, the Maquis - with their inevitable racial prejudice against Cardassians - would naturally focus all of their hatred on any Cardassians they found, up to and including Seska. If she had openly admitted being Cardassian right from the start, she'd have been dead in a week.
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Old November 5 2012, 02:20 AM   #27
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

No she wouldn't. They were all either wimps or too intelligent not to realize their cause was dead in the Delta quadrant and so no longer worth dying or spending 70 years in the brig for. The only one who might have killed her would be B'Elanna but by that time she was in good with Janeway and wanted her respect so it wouldn't have happened.
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Old November 5 2012, 02:46 AM   #28
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
How many assassination attempts did Paris have to fend off?
Most of the Maquis probably just saw Paris as comic relief. Chakotay was plenty pissed off at him, but wouldn't try to kill him. Chak was a real Starfleet officer before he defected, after all.

However, the Maquis - with their inevitable racial prejudice against Cardassians - would naturally focus all of their hatred on any Cardassians they found, up to and including Seska. If she had openly admitted being Cardassian right from the start, she'd have been dead in a week.
Seska would have already had sex with the most hateful racists on the ship. Made them fall in love with her, or at least eager for another booty call, and after they found out who and what she really was would have resulted in a series of conversations similar to this...

"You my hate my spoon, but you love my pussy... Although can you imagine what it's like to screw me in my spoon? Aaaaaaand now you love my spoon. Perfect. So, fuck off."
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Old November 19 2012, 12:16 PM   #29
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

[QUOTE=R. Star;7202725]
teacock wrote: View Post
She did apparently enjoy spending her free time rewriting a holodeck program to torture Tuvok just because he potrayed her in a less than flattering(yet very accurate) light.

She even worked in some C/S into it fanfic style! Not sure how she ever would've expected to get away with that if Tuvok had accessed that program while she was still on board, but long term strategy doesn't appear to be her strong suit.
Simple... The program was redesigned as a no-win scenario to kill Tuvok, and he was keeping the entire thing a secret back when it was a training program, so there wouldn't have been anyone to know he was in trouble and rescue him by re-writing the program from outside. Afterwards, it just self-deletes or blows-out the holodeck computer or whatever, and the crew is forced to simply assume it was yet another malfunction of the well-loved but suspiciously deadly sexatorium.
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Old November 19 2012, 12:17 PM   #30
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Re: Is Seska Based on Hedda Gabler?

teacake wrote: View Post
The only one who might have killed her would be B'Elanna but by that time she was in good with Janeway and wanted her respect so it wouldn't have happened.
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