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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Persistence of Memory.
Outstanding 71 56.35%
Above Average 41 32.54%
Average 12 9.52%
Below Average 1 0.79%
Poor 1 0.79%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 4 2012, 02:13 PM   #181
matthunter
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

To be fair to the writers, the "out" for Data's death was as heavily foreshadowed in Nemesis as Spock's resurrection was in The Wrath of Khan. I'd have been disappointed if they HADN'T done something with it. Likewise, the other character in this novel who escapes death (albeit dying again by the end) had enough established backstory to suggest this was a possible route for bringing him back.

If they bring Choudhury back from the events of this novel, I'll start calling BS as there's nothing there to hint it's possible. No memory backup, no katra, no friendly Q after a travelling companion, no temporal shenanigans...

And I have to say that Mack's resolution is far more organic, natural and meaningful than Data simply re-emerging within B-4's body, as Star Trek Online chose to do it... I've never quite bought that B-4's less advanced systems could "run" Data's software at all, even long enough for him to advise people on how to upgrade them (as STO would have it).
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Old November 4 2012, 02:21 PM   #182
Hartzilla2007
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

matthunter wrote: View Post
To be fair to the writers, the "out" for Data's death was as heavily foreshadowed in Nemesis as Spock's resurrection was in The Wrath of Khan. I'd have been disappointed if they HADN'T done something with it.
Like I said in the Indistinguishable from Magic thread that this book inspired I don't care if it was foreshadowed I still don't like it.

And I after reading the first DC Comics TOS series set right after TWOK I feel the same way about Spock's ressurection.

And I have to say that Mack's resolution is far more organic, natural and meaningful than Data simply re-emerging within B-4's body, as Star Trek Online chose to do it... I've never quite bought that B-4's less advanced systems could "run" Data's software at all, even long enough for him to advise people on how to upgrade them (as STO would have it).
I really don't care how organic it felt a cop out is a cop out.
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Old November 4 2012, 02:28 PM   #183
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

matthunter wrote: View Post
If they bring Choudhury back from the events of this novel, I'll start calling BS as there's nothing there to hint it's possible. No memory backup, no katra, no friendly Q after a travelling companion, no temporal shenanigans...
Don't worry. She's not a TV character. There won't be legions of fans asking "where's Choudhury?" or saying it doesn't feel like a TNG book without her. There's no pre-established audience with an interest in her to be prompted into buying books on the promise of a new Choudhury story.

I wouldn't worry about book-only characters returning from the dead; even someone like Vaughn, who was as important and notable as a book-only character can be, I can pretty much guarantee we won't be seeing again. It's the TV characters who are considered integral parts of the original shows who we can't be assured will stay in the grave.
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Old November 4 2012, 02:41 PM   #184
Hartzilla2007
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
matthunter wrote: View Post
If they bring Choudhury back from the events of this novel, I'll start calling BS as there's nothing there to hint it's possible. No memory backup, no katra, no friendly Q after a travelling companion, no temporal shenanigans...
Don't worry. She's not a TV character. There won't be legions of fans asking "where's Choudhury?" or saying it doesn't feel like a TNG book without her. There's no pre-established audience with an interest in her to be prompted into buying books on the promise of a new Choudhury story.

I wouldn't worry about book-only characters returning from the dead; even someone like Vaughn, who was as important and notable as a book-only character can be, I can pretty much guarantee we won't be seeing again. It's the TV characters who are considered integral parts of the original shows who we can't be assured will stay in the grave.
Which is another thing that annoys me about this, the whole only TV characters matter crap that will never allow the trek universe to expand as there are no more new TV characters, and there probably will never be any new TV characters in the Prime-verse.
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Old November 4 2012, 02:48 PM   #185
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Which is another thing that annoys me about this, the whole only TV characters matter crap that will never allow the trek universe to expand as there are no more new TV characters, and there probably will never be any new TV characters in the Prime-verse.
This really makes no sense and will guarantee that Trek books either quit being published or get a full on reboot back to the places they left off in TV/Movies. Most people want to read about the characters they see on TV, those are the characters they like.

There is definitely danger in moving too far away from the source material.
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Old November 4 2012, 02:52 PM   #186
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007, have you actually read the book?
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Old November 4 2012, 03:34 PM   #187
Elias Vaughn
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Sho wrote: View Post
As such this level of Big Brothering shouldn't be OK either, but maybe that's the effect of a couple of wars in short order?
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Old November 4 2012, 04:11 PM   #188
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Elias Vaughn wrote: View Post
Sho wrote: View Post
As such this level of Big Brothering shouldn't be OK either, but maybe that's the effect of a couple of wars in short order?
I do have a problem with it. The Federation has become a society that openly spies on their citizens. I see that as a major step back.
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Old November 4 2012, 04:30 PM   #189
Hartzilla2007
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Which is another thing that annoys me about this, the whole only TV characters matter crap that will never allow the trek universe to expand as there are no more new TV characters, and there probably will never be any new TV characters in the Prime-verse.
This really makes no sense and will guarantee that Trek books either quit being published or get a full on reboot back to the places they left off in TV/Movies. Most people want to read about the characters they see on TV, those are the characters they like.

There is definitely danger in moving too far away from the source material.
Um, wasn't part of the foundation of the modern trek litverse layed down by Star Trek: New Frontier and its mostly lit original cast. We also had the Stargazer series (with only Picard who was very different from the TNG version), COE, IKS Gorkon/Klingon Empire and Vanguard, In fact the DS9 relaunch cast is mostly made up of new characters. Seems like there might by a problem with your theory there.
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Old November 4 2012, 04:33 PM   #190
BillJ
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Which is another thing that annoys me about this, the whole only TV characters matter crap that will never allow the trek universe to expand as there are no more new TV characters, and there probably will never be any new TV characters in the Prime-verse.
This really makes no sense and will guarantee that Trek books either quit being published or get a full on reboot back to the places they left off in TV/Movies. Most people want to read about the characters they see on TV, those are the characters they like.

There is definitely danger in moving too far away from the source material.
Um, wasn't part of the foundation of the modern trek litverse layed down by Star Trek: New Frontier and its mostly lit original cast. We also had the Stargazer series (with only Picard who was very different from the TNG version), COE, IKS Gorkon/Klingon Empire and Vanguard, In fact the DS9 relaunch cast is mostly made up of new characters. Seems like there might by a problem with your theory there.
And how many of those Trek Lit series are still going on? And DS9 seems to now be moving back towards using the canon characters. As is Voyager and TNG.
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Old November 4 2012, 04:40 PM   #191
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Um, wasn't part of the foundation of the modern Trek litverse layed down by Star Trek: New Frontier and its mostly lit original cast. We also had the Stargazer series (with only Picard who was very different from the TNG version), COE, IKS Gorkon/Klingon Empire and Vanguard, in fact the DS9 relaunch cast is mostly made up of new characters. Seems like there might by a problem with your theory there.
Not necessarily: Those series you named started out as Trek Lit-only. People who pick them up know what they get. The novels based on TV shows, that's a different story: Long-time fans expect to see the characters they are familiar with (cf. success of TOS set during the everlasting five year mission).

Though, you are correct with the DS9-R. It had/has a nice mix of old an new characters.

Most of the TV characters can be active officers for the next few decades. Picard was already a dinosaur when TNG started and 24th/25th century medical science surely can make people live centuries. In addition, characters could still be part of their series when they leave the ship (e.g. future Ambassador Picard).

/my 2 cents
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Old November 4 2012, 04:47 PM   #192
Hartzilla2007
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
And DS9 seems to now be moving back towards using the canon characters. As is Voyager and TNG.
A grand total of two, one of which had only left in the 3 year time skip and so was gone for maybe one or two books relatively, so really it was only one.

Garak, Dax, Sisko, Jake for the most part, Worf, and Rom, are still gone.

And

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Old November 4 2012, 05:02 PM   #193
BillJ
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
And DS9 seems to now be moving back towards using the canon characters. As is Voyager and TNG.
A grand total of two, one of which had only left in the 3 year time skip and so was gone for maybe one or two books relatively, so really it was only one.

Garak, Dax, Sisko, Jake for the most part, Worf, and Rom, are still gone.

And



And since the authors have admitted that the TOS books sell the best, there may be something to the notion that folks like reading about the characters they've seen on TV.
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Old November 4 2012, 05:09 PM   #194
Hartzilla2007
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
And DS9 seems to now be moving back towards using the canon characters. As is Voyager and TNG.
A grand total of two, one of which had only left in the 3 year time skip and so was gone for maybe one or two books relatively, so really it was only one.

Garak, Dax, Sisko, Jake for the most part, Worf, and Rom, are still gone.

And

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Old November 4 2012, 05:11 PM   #195
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

A grand total of two, one of which had only left in the 3 year time skip and so was gone for maybe one or two books relatively, so really it was only one.

Garak, Dax, Sisko, Jake for the most part, Worf, and Rom, are still gone.

And

Why not? The Enterprise was there.
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