We haven't had a conversation about tipping in awhile

[J. Allen]

Gov Karnstein wrote:

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This I can well agree with. Honestly, the cook is the one responsible for the meal. I'd much prefer the one making the meal be substantially rewarded. I have little patience for a sense of entitlement from the gophers.

Well, I'm not saying servers don't deserve to be tipped well. I'm just saying that being a server shouldn't automatically mean a tip must be forthcoming. Poor service gets a poor tip. If the server has a bad attitude along with the bad service, I give no tip. Some servers find that harsh, I find it fair.

There are people who say that if you don't have the money to tip, you don't have the money to eat out. Fine. I say if you don't have the ability to offer a reasonable level of service, you don't get a tip.

[Gov Kodos]

teacock wrote:

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But the cook is (I assume?) paid a living wage and not paid as though they were going to make their living off tips.

Presumably, I don't believe in rewarding poor service. I've no problem leaving no tip and making sure the manager knows why.

[teacake]

Oh I wouldn't have tipped if the person was a jerk or something, but I don't recall ever having that experience in the US.

Now in Australia..

[Gov Kodos]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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Well, I'm not saying servers don't deserve to be tipped well. I'm just saying that being a server shouldn't automatically mean a tip must be forthcoming. Poor service gets a poor tip. If the server has a bad attitude along with the bad service, I give no tip. Some servers find that harsh, I find it fair.

There are people who say that if you don't have the money to tip, you don't have the money to eat out. Fine. I say if you don't have the ability to offer a reasonable level of service, you don't get a tip.

I agree. I seldom tip above the standard, that's for truly exceptional service. Poor service, the gratuity falls rapidly with the dissatisfaction.

[Kestra]

Alidar Warlock wrote:

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Yeah, I know we've had this discussion before, so I appreciate your input. However, part of my thought is I genuinely believe that, if you give bad service, you don't deserve a good tip. The tipping system allows servers, who work a flexible schedule so they wouldn't make much for the difficulty of the job if they get paid minimum wage, to make a better wage for doing well. The problem is there has to be an agreed amount that gets reduced for bad service, rather than treating it as something that's a reward for exceptional service.

I think the problems go beyond that, but everyone defines all the terms (exceptional, reward, etc.) differently. Ultimately the problem is the same thing that affects most of us; people rarely get what they deserve.

[J. Allen]

Gov Karnstein wrote:

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I agree. I seldom tip above the standard, that's for truly exceptional service.

I've had servers get upset that I tip below what they feel they've earned. One incident was when me and a few friends had dinner at a Steak and Shake. The total, for all 4 of us, came to about $60. I tipped $5, but I didn't quite have enough to tip the extra $3 that I normally would. Still, I thought $5 was fair because aside from our initial orders, we didn't bother her the whole time we were there. On top of that, I bussed the table. I always have everyone put the plates, saucers, cups, etc., in the center of the table, and I wipe down the table as best as I can, to remove some of the work required to get the table ready for another customer.

So I paid for dinner (it was on me that night), and I walked back and put the $5 on the table. As I was walking away, I heard her say "Five dollars? What a cheap ass!"

Sometimes you get people like that. Not all servers are like that, though.

[Shanndee]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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I don't believe in the idea of "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out", and I say that as someone who has been a server, and a busboy. I don't like the idea of "if you can't give me a tip, then you shouldn't be here".

THANK YOU. I will never understand this attitude. When I was going to school (and working 3 part time jobs to get by), there were times that the only reward I could give myself was a meal that I didn't have the time (or the energy) to cook myself. I sometimes only had enough to pay for the meal, and there is no way anyone can convince me that that I shouldn't have been in a restaurant because I "couldn't afford it".

Now that I have graduated and have a reliable income I always tip good service, but I don't feel it is fair to make a sweeping statement like the one in the OP.

[J. Allen]

Shanndee wrote:

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THANK YOU. I will never understand this attitude. When I was going to school (and working 3 part time jobs to get by), there were times that the only reward I could give myself was a meal that I didn't have the time (or the energy) to cook myself. I sometimes only had enough to pay for the meal, and there is no way anyone can convince me that that I shouldn't have been in a restaurant because I "couldn't afford it".

Now that I have graduated and have a reliable income I always tip good service, but I don't feel it is fair to make a sweeping statement like the one in the OP.

Glad to hear you're doing well!

Anyway, yes, it bothers me because it shifts focus from the customer to the server. It goes from "How can I serve you today?" to "How much can you do for me?" It makes it seem like the restaurant is to cater to the server, and not the customer, and that's ridiculous.

[RoJoHen]

Bad tippers are annoying, but they are the minority.

Awesome tippers are awesome, but they are equally a minority.

Most people are average tippers. On a given night I can pretty much guess how much money I made based on how busy I felt I was because, in general, most people tip the same way, and the shitty tips tend to get canceled out by the awesome tips anyway.

The one instance where bad tips are extra irritating is when you are waiting on a large group of people with a very large tab, and they don't tip accordingly.

Overall, though, I've gotten over it. I tip like a crazy person because I am in the industry and that's just what we do.

[Alidar Jarok]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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I've had servers get upset that I tip below what they feel they've earned. One incident was when me and a few friends had dinner at a Steak and Shake. The total, for all 4 of us, came to about $60. I tipped $5, but I didn't quite have enough to tip the extra $3 that I normally would. Still, I thought $5 was fair because aside from our initial orders, we didn't bother her the whole time we were there. On top of that, I bussed the table. I always have everyone put the plates, saucers, cups, etc., in the center of the table, and I wipe down the table as best as I can, to remove some of the work required to get the table ready for another customer.

So I paid for dinner (it was on me that night), and I walked back and put the $5 on the table. As I was walking away, I heard her say "Five dollars? What a cheap ass!"

Sometimes you get people like that. Not all servers are like that, though.

You gave less than 10% tip? Was the service bad?

[J. Allen]

Alidar Warlock wrote:

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You gave less than 10% tip? Was the service bad?

The service was fair for what it was. It was late at night, we were just about the only other patrons in the restaurant, save for 2 or three other people on the other side of the room.

Also, I don't go by percentages. Higher food cost does not translate to bigger tip.

[Grey]

Ok...I'm one of those people who struggles to afford eating out, much less the tip. But 138 dollars? Being poor means figuring how to eat out on a budget. Spending that much (this was at a restaurant right? Not a grocery store?) on dinner officially cancels your use of the "too poor to tip" clause.

Kreacher wrote:

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I had an annoying experience at a new restaurant near me. I'm used to some places including a 15 or so percent service charge for parties of six of more, but this one included it for everyone.

I actually wish all restaurants were like that. This thread is a perfect example. You've got people, genuinely decent people, who tip a certain amount and offend their servers, and then you've got servers, genuinely decent servers, who manage to offend their customers who have to tip them something. No one is ever happy. I'd rather have a system where all the guesswork is taken out of it. No percentages. No which friend is tipping tonight and which friend is the cheapass? No who's food do I spit in tonight?

I know it's not perfect but I hate guessing in ambiguous situations where everyone has a strong opinion. And it sucks that people who are forced to rely on tips for income aren't even guaranteed that income, because technically no one is forced to leave a tip. They're only getting paid by a high-pressure honor system.

[MacLeod]

Well of course one way to remove the abiguity is to simple increase servers wages to the minimum wage, True this would add cost to the food.

As for tips then it would be the patrons decision as to whether or not to leave a tip instead of feeling under preasure to leave one.

But if servers do better out of the tipping system they wouldn't in general want to change it.

But who would benefit more from the change the consumer or the server/waiter?

[Trekker4747]

Screamy wrote:

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If you can afford 138 dollars of food, you can afford a tip.

If not...COOK YOUR OWN FOOD OR EAT LESS.

Sort of what I was thinking, she can afford to spend $138 on a meal as a single mom but couldn't drop down at least another measly $10-$15 for a tip? Bitch.

[Alidar Jarok]

Rainbow Dash wrote:

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The service was fair for what it was. It was late at night, we were just about the only other patrons in the restaurant, save for 2 or three other people on the other side of the room.

Also, I don't go by percentages. Higher food cost does not translate to bigger tip.

See, from my perspective, I would be spending the rest of the night wondering what I did wrong. Since there is a social convention, such a dramatic departure from it would have to mean something and someone else's idiosyncratic tendencies wouldn't cross my mind. Instead, I would normally be expecting 9-12 dollars unless I gave bad service and always hope to get more if I gave exceptional service.

Keep in mind the server would probably be there for the hour with you plus near an hour after to clean up the restaurant. For this, she is compensated $2.23 an hour. That plus your five would be 9.46 for two hours.