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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 31 2012, 05:09 PM   #151
Sindatur
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Re: Is Wrath of Khan Overrated

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Khan has an axe to grind for arbitrary reasons?

Kirk abandoned him on a frozen hell hole, where Khan's wife died of exposure. How in the world could that possibly be called arbitrary?
I love the logic that because its older and other movies have followed the template with better special effects, that The Wrath of Khan is somehow the lesser movie.
Arbitrary: subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion

Khan blames Kirk for marooning him on a planet that at the time was habitable, and wasn't frozen hell hole Sindatur. The ENT episode Twilight we see Ceti Alpha V. Ceti Alpha VI blew up 6 months after Kirk left Khan there. With the option of facing criminal charges or being the ruler of an untamed world, Khan took the latter with a smile on his face.

Picture this ok. You buy a new car from a car salesman. You drive it for six months and you get in to a car collision due to inclement weather, and your car is totaled. Now who's fault is it? The salesman's who sold you the car or the the weather for having unforseen effects on the road while you drove?
Ceti Alpha VI was an unforeseen occurrence and not Kirk's fault. Just like the supernova that blew away Romulus was not Spock's fault. Khan needed someone to direct his anger at so he chose Kirk. Even though the prospect of living on Ceti Alpha was more than satisfying to him prior to Ceti Alpha VI's destruction. Kirk could've taken him to a prison, or killed him. Khan took a chance and it blew up in his face.

Nero and the Romulans should've known about their sun going supernova. Nero should've evacuated his family but he didn't. So he lashes out at a public figure he doesn't know (Countdown is not canon nor does the dialogue in the movie suggest Spock knew Nero's name) for promising to save his planet and failing.

Now going with just the words on the paper, character's story (Kirk's in TWOK, Spock's in 2009), villain's actions, villain's motivation, and supporting character's roles, TWOK and (2009) are nearly identical movies. All I said was TWOK has aged which is true since it's 30 years old, compare to JJ's film which is new and grand in it's delivery and presentation. Everything shiny new. Now don't misunderstand me. I'm no cheerleader for Abrams' Mission Impossible Star Trek, but since both films run so parallel, the (2009) one is more engaging is all.

A sharper dynamic between Kirk and Khan would've helped. Kirk from the show, who is quick with his mind and quick with his fists in this film would've been excellent. Khan actually displaying his enhanced abilities with genuine applications of his genius would've also been excellent. Instead of slitting the throats of several unarmed scientists and expecting people to be intimidated by him.
Selling a car, is nothing like Marooning someone on a planet. Kirk should have made sure someone kept tabs on Khan (At least in Khan's view, making it not arbitrary, but, lgitimate beef, that he was left to rot on the planet)
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Old October 31 2012, 06:48 PM   #152
TiberiusMaximus
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Re: Is Wrath of Khan Overrated

No, Wrath of Khan is not overrated.

So there.
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Old November 2 2012, 04:21 AM   #153
sonak
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Re: Is Wrath of Khan Overrated

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Khan has an axe to grind for arbitrary reasons?

Kirk abandoned him on a frozen hell hole, where Khan's wife died of exposure. How in the world could that possibly be called arbitrary?

um, this isn't accurate at all. Khan tried to take over Kirk's ship and kill Kirk himself. Far from "abandoning" him, Kirk let him choose exile in freedom over imprisonment for his crimes.

The shift in the planet's orbit happened months later. Why would Kirk be like "hey, I should really go check on the insane despot who tried to kill me and hijack my ship just to make sure he's doing okay?"
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Old November 2 2012, 05:52 AM   #154
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Re: Is Wrath of Khan Overrated

sonak's transporter ghost wrote: View Post
The shift in the planet's orbit happened months later. Why would Kirk be like "hey, I should really go check on the insane despot who tried to kill me and hijack my ship just to make sure he's doing okay?"
Because you want to make sure the insane despot doesn't figure a way off the planet. Hell, you wonder why they didn't drop a probe in orbit before leaving to monitor the system.

Kirk is my favorite Trek character, but he made quite a few mega-blunders over the course of Trek.
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Old November 2 2012, 04:14 PM   #155
sonak
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Re: Is Wrath of Khan Overrated

BillJ wrote: View Post
sonak's transporter ghost wrote: View Post
The shift in the planet's orbit happened months later. Why would Kirk be like "hey, I should really go check on the insane despot who tried to kill me and hijack my ship just to make sure he's doing okay?"
Because you want to make sure the insane despot doesn't figure a way off the planet. Hell, you wonder why they didn't drop a probe in orbit before leaving to monitor the system.

Kirk is my favorite Trek character, but he made quite a few mega-blunders over the course of Trek.

That's checking on him for a different reason though, which wasn't what I was responding to. In your example, he's not doing it because he owes it to Khan to make sure he's doing well.
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