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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 1 2012, 05:41 AM   #241
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Indysolo wrote: View Post
I'm listening to the final master right now for season 2, disc 2. Wow, does this sound good. You're all really in for a treat.
Season 2, disc 2, hmm. The Adonais score? I would expect that to be on disc 1, with Amok Time. Mirror Mirror?

Doomsday Machine???
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Old November 1 2012, 01:55 PM   #242
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I'd expect there to be three episode scores on a typical disc. If the scores are arranged in production order, then "Adonais" would be fourth, "Amok Time" fifth, "Doomsday" sixth, and "Mirror" seventh.
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Old November 1 2012, 04:34 PM   #243
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
I'd expect there to be three episode scores on a typical disc. If the scores are arranged in production order, then "Adonais" would be fourth, "Amok Time" fifth, "Doomsday" sixth, and "Mirror" seventh.
I was thinking last night after I posted, that my estimate of what scores could be on disc 2 was based on the idea of the scores being in series order. Your post mentions production order. Neither one of those is necessarily the obvious choice.

Returning to Jeff Bond's indispensable book, the scoring schedule is on page 33. Why wouldn't that be the obvious order for the CDs?

Scoring schedule for the first part of season two:
Code:
Catspaw             6/21/1967
Metamorphosis       6/28
Friday's Child      7/7
Adonais             7/12
Amok Time           7/19
Doomsday Machine    8/30
Mirror Mirror       9/8
Bond lists 34 episodes with original music. We've learned during the runup to this release that that number may not be 100% accurate – there is at least some new music in Way To Eden, for example – but it's pretty close. 34 episodes over 15 discs gives a little over two scores per disc. But not all of them were full scores; some were full and some were just part scores. I think Kaplan's score for Enemy Within was a full score, so I'd guess it would take up half a CD. But Steiner's scores for Corbomite, Balance of Terror, and Little Girls were all part scores – in fact they were all recorded the same day. Those three probably combine to take up another half CD.

This notion that a day of recording gives about half a CD is supported elsewhere in Bond's book. Bond quotes an article Steiner wrote for Wonderful Inventions. Steiner writes that the ratio of usable music to performance-recording time was about 4-1/2 to 5 mins per hour. He says that the Charlie X score was about 21 mins of music, and that would have taken "not less than four and a half hours" to lay down. It all fits:
average recording session ~= 4-1/2 to 5 hours --> about 18 to 23 mins of music score ~= half a CD
Bond lists 30 distinct recording dates. That matches 15 discs, perfectly. So that's going to be my guess: the set arranged in scoring schedule order, with two sessions per disc. That will usually give two episodes per disc, but sometimes more where there are part scores.

I suspect "scoring schedule order" and "two sessions per disc" might break down in one or two places. GNP Crescendo tried to put the two pilots on one disc, and we didn't get all the music, possibly due to space constraints (those are big scores). So it wouldn't surprise me if those were split, each paired with slightly shorter scores. And somehow Duning recorded the Truth No Beauty and Empath scores on the same day – those are both full scores, right? – which must be some kind of record for efficiency. Wouldn't surprise me to see those two scores split, each paired with a shorter score. Maybe Spock's Brain paired with Truth No Beauty on one disc, and Empath paired with Plato's Stepchildren on another. That preserves scoring schedule order.

Going back to the scoring schedule – if Neil was listening to season 2 disc 2, then it may have been Friday's Child and Adonais. A good disc.

Oh, and note that if recording schedule is used for the order of the discs, then season 2 disc 3 preserves the GNP Crescendo pairing of Amok Time and Doomsday Machine. Another good disc.
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Old November 1 2012, 05:20 PM   #244
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

MAN that's the kind of talk I like.

GNP's The Cage / Where No Man Has Gone Before was originally an LP, so those might fit on a single CD even when they are complete. Also, Doomsday / Amok Time was only 52 minutes and Shore Leave / Naked Time was only 46 minutes.

Also we're not factoring for any alternate / unused cues. I don't know if those will go with their episodes or be put on a group of discs.

AND how are they doing library cues? (Are library cues the same as the cues from other seasons that they had to re-record? I think we're getting Charlie X like three times aren't we?)

Sure we'll know all this in five or six weeks. But it's still a blast to talk about.
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Old November 1 2012, 07:42 PM   #245
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

JimZipCode wrote: View Post
I was thinking last night after I posted, that my estimate of what scores could be on disc 2 was based on the idea of the scores being in series order. Your post mentions production order. Neither one of those is necessarily the obvious choice.

Returning to Jeff Bond's indispensable book, the scoring schedule is on page 33. Why wouldn't that be the obvious order for the CDs?
That schedule on p. 33 is actually the reference I used to cite the episode order in my last post. That listed scoring order we've both cited for early season 2 is identical to production order for those episodes that featured original scores.


Bond lists 34 episodes with original music. We've learned during the runup to this release that that number may not be 100% accurate – there is at least some new music in Way To Eden, for example – but it's pretty close. 34 episodes over 15 discs gives a little over two scores per disc. But not all of them were full scores; some were full and some were just part scores. I think Kaplan's score for Enemy Within was a full score, so I'd guess it would take up half a CD. But Steiner's scores for Corbomite, Balance of Terror, and Little Girls were all part scores – in fact they were all recorded the same day. Those three probably combine to take up another half CD.
And we don't know how much additional material there might be, and whether things like unused, alternate, or diegetic cues would be on the same discs as their associated episodes (as was the case with Batman: TAS Volume 2, e.g.) or on additional discs at the end (as was the case with the Ron Jones set).
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Old November 1 2012, 08:59 PM   #246
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Christopher wrote: View Post
That schedule on p. 33 is actually the reference I used to cite the episode order in my last post. That listed scoring order we've both cited for early season 2 is identical to production order for those episodes that featured original scores.
That makes a ton of sense. After I posted I compared the season 2 scoring order with your prior note about how
"Adonais" would be fourth, "Amok Time" fifth, "Doomsday" sixth, and "Mirror" seventh.
and thought, "Hmm what a coincidence!" I think I am entirely in agreement with you about what order makes sense, for this set.


Tallguy wrote: View Post
(Are library cues the same as the cues from other seasons that they had to re-record? I think we're getting Charlie X like three times aren't we?)
Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of "library cues". We should be getting the zaps from Charlie X, and a couple other cues, multiple times; but not the full score.


Tallguy wrote: View Post
Also we're not factoring for any alternate / unused cues. I don't know if those will go with their episodes or be put on a group of discs.
AND how are they doing library cues?
Christopher wrote: View Post
And we don't know how much additional material there might be
Library cues would have been recorded during a session, probably tacked onto a session for another score. So if the discs have a "session" orientation, then to me it would make sense to put the library cues with the other material they were recorded with. That preserves a "composer" feel with a disc: if Steiner composes & conducts the Adonais score, and records his library cues that same session, that would have a similar "feel", as opposed to sticking some Courage library cues onto that disc.

That implied orientation "toward the musician" (as opposed to "toward what aired") would be consistent with what we've heard about the set including info on the actual session players.


Christopher wrote: View Post
...and whether things like unused, alternate, or diegetic cues would be on the same discs as their associated episodes (as was the case with Batman: TAS Volume 2, e.g.) or on additional discs at the end (as was the case with the Ron Jones set).
Ah. I've heard neither the Batman nor the Ron Jones, so I don't know how those two approaches have played out in the past.

To me it makes sense that unused & alternate cues from a recording session would be grouped with all the other material from that same session; and then entirely separate material (like Adam's songs from Way To Eden, if they were to appear) would be grouped with that episode's material (if there were any). Perhaps a good example would be Charlie X. On that (half) CD, I would expect to get Steiner's full score, as he first intended it, which might include cues that were later cut from the running episode; and then some extra zaps and stings that they probably recorded at the same session for use elsewhere in season 1; and then if they were including Nichelle Nichols singing Uhura's song ("O on the Starship Enterprise" etc) in the set, it would go here. I don't think they are including that, but that placement would make sense to me.

I guess there are some oddballs that might not fit either category (Brahms Waltz?), but not a lot.

Doesn't seem to me as if there is room for a whole disc dedicated to extra stuff. We know it's 15 discs: 30 recording sessions at about half a disc per session gets us right to 15 discs, without an extra disc for unused/alternate/diegetic material. That suggests the producers packing in the extra stuff among the regular stuff, wherever it fits. If we assume something more compact, like 3 sessions per disc, then we have 10 discs of music from episodes – plus one disc of extra stuff, and, what four empty discs?? I don't see it.

It would make sense to handle this differently from the Ron Jones set, since that was a single-composer set. This is not.

But of course, I don't know anything more than you do.
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Old November 1 2012, 10:05 PM   #247
OneBuckFilms
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Is anyone going to the event on Dec. 3rd?

I already have the day off of work, and intend on being there.
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Old November 1 2012, 10:56 PM   #248
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Sadly will not be attending. I thought the TMP event would have been something. This will just be mind blowing.
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Old November 1 2012, 11:02 PM   #249
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Is anyone going to the event on Dec. 3rd?

I already have the day off of work, and intend on being there.
I will be there!
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Old November 1 2012, 11:15 PM   #250
Indysolo
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I'll be there!

The discs are arranged in a very logical order.

Neil
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Old November 1 2012, 11:24 PM   #251
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Indysolo wrote: View Post
The discs are arranged in a very logical order.
How could they be otherwise?
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Old November 2 2012, 12:34 AM   #252
OneBuckFilms
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

I am assuming, of course, that there will be some units for sale at the events?
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Old November 2 2012, 05:34 AM   #253
JimZipCode
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Indysolo wrote: View Post
The discs are arranged in a very logical order.
No doubt.

What score were you listening to, when you posted the other day?
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Old November 2 2012, 05:41 AM   #254
Indysolo
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Ones you'll be listening to very soon!

Neil
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Old November 2 2012, 09:23 PM   #255
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Re: La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Indysolo, you have a singular gift when it comes to being teasingly vague.
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