Is TOS the best sci-fi TV American series until 1985?

[BillJ]

RandyS wrote:

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Don't feel bad. I'm starting to feel that way about the whole damn forum. It seems I can't go into any of these boards without being automatically dismissed or ridiculed.

This place is supposed to be fun, but hasn't been for a while.

Agreed.

[1001001]

BillJ wrote:

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Agreed.

There's no reason to take different opinions personally. These threads are for discussion, and good discussion usually flows from opposing viewpoints.

I've read back through this entire thread and I really don't see anything that constitutes "ridicule". As long as posters continue to express their thoughts without getting personal, it's all good.

The forum would be quite boring if no one ever disagreed.

[RandyS]

1001001 wrote:

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There's no reason to take different opinions personally. These threads are for discussion, and good discussion usually flows from opposing viewpoints.

I've read back through this entire thread and I really don't see anything that constitutes "ridicule". As long as posters continue to express their thoughts without getting personal, it's all good.

The forum would be quite boring if no one ever disagreed.

Oh I wasn't referring to this thread. You're right, this one has been civil. I was referring more to my experiences in both Misc and The Netural Zone (and yeah, the rules there are different, I know, but some posters geti way out of line down there for no reason at all).

I have seen it creep into other areas around here from time to time though, and some comments go WAAAAY beyond simple disagreement.

[UnknownSample]

My blood pressure remark wasn't about personal attacks. I was talking about my losing hope for the future, when light sci-fi is held up as being as good or better than the more adult SF with depth and maturity to it. It's one thing to enjoy the lighter stuff, and I wouldn't mind seeing some right now... but we need to be able to tell that they're on different levels, at least.

[mos6507]

The answer is YES.

TOS pretty much defined science-fiction.

I love Twilight Zone, but it was anthology and isn't strictly science-fiction.

[Noname Given]

Grant wrote:

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I know it aired in the US, but Space:1999 was UK produced.

Yes, the list is short...........

Time Tunnel
Land of the Giants
Lost in Space
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
Planet of the Apes
Logan's Run
6 Million Dollar Man
Bionic Woman
Buck Rogers
BattleStar Galactica


pretty slim pickings

You forgot:
The Starlost
Gemeni Man
The Invisible Man (with David McCallum)
The Man From Atlantis

And the old Saturday Moring Live action entries of:
Space Academy
Jason of Star Command
Ark II
Land of the Lost
Lost Saucer

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Noname Given wrote:

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You forgot:
The Starlost
Gemeni Man
The Invisible Man (with David McCallum)
The Man From Atlantis

And the old Saturday Moring Live action entries of:
Space Academy
Jason of Star Command
Ark II
Land of the Lost
Lost Saucer

Well, if you include The Lost Saucer, why not Far Out Space Nuts and Dr. Shrinker?

[TREK_GOD_1]

BoredShipCapt'n wrote:

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Well, if you include The Lost Saucer, why not Far Out Space Nuts and Dr. Shrinker?

Technically, children's sci-fi should count, as the genre is not strictly for adults. Dr. Shrinker falls into that catagory, much like Valley of the Dinosaurs, Sealab: 2020 (NOT the Cartoon Network parody Sealab: 2021), and certainly the animated Star Trek and Return to the Planet of the Apes count as TV sci-fi.

[TREK_GOD_1]

RandyS wrote:

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This place is supposed to be fun, but hasn't been for a while.

Look at it this way--for any of those fun-killing, anti-TOS members: if any of the Rick Berman shlock was the first televised ST rather than TOS, this thread and board would not exist. Honestly, when TNG turned 20, the mainstream media hardly blinked about it--the opposite reaction to TOS' 20th, where I remember the mainstream coverage, and the screening of full version of "The Cage." That was 1986, a period where all kinds of entertainment diversions had taken center stage (that was the "blockbuster decade"), so ST was not the only game in town, yet TOS' anniversary was well covered news.

I did not see that in TNG's case, and there's no doubt few will pay attention to the 20th of DS9, VOY or ENT, and I think there's a clear reason for that--if anyone cares to admit it.

So, some can take shots at TOS, but that series remains the face of the franchise--nearly 50 years and hundreds of spin-off episodes later. It is a true cultural icon, but who speaks that way about the Rick Berman productions? There's a reason for that as well.

[BillJ]

Rick Berman made good Trek and bad Trek, just like Gene did. I'm a TOS die-hard but there is some fun to be had in the spin-offs.

[TREK_GOD_1]

BillJ wrote:

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Rick Berman made good Trek and bad Trek, just like Gene did. I'm a TOS die-hard but there is some fun to be had in the spin-offs.

Berman buried ST, which required a reboot (questionable as NuTrek is). Roddenberry cannot be accused of that.

[Nerys Myk]

mos6507 wrote:

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The answer is YES.

TOS pretty much defined science-fiction.

I love Twilight Zone, but it was anthology and isn't strictly science-fiction.

Science Fiction existed before Star Trek and Star Trek is influence by what came before it. So It hardly defines Science Fiction. SF is much more interesting and varied than Star Trek. (And I say this a long time fan of Star Trek)

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Berman buried ST, which required a reboot (questionable as NuTrek is). Roddenberry cannot be accused of that.

The argument could made that both TMP and TWOK rebooted ST. One could also argue that GR buried ST when he abandoned it in the third season of TOS. Luckily it clawed its way out.

[BillJ]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Berman buried ST, which required a reboot (questionable as NuTrek is). Roddenberry cannot be accused of that.

Roddenberry did a soft reboot with both The Motion Picture and The Next Generation. And it can be argued that Berman held TNG together while Roddenberry and his lawyer nearly destroyed it with writing room shenanigans.

Berman's biggest crime is that he didn't know when to get out.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Zombie Cheerleader wrote:

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The argument could made that both TMP and TWOK rebooted ST

TMP was not a reboot, but a continuation of the same characters and their experiences from TOS, which is what Phase II was going to be before the production shited gears to feature films. That was the opposite situation of the Berman productions, which dug a grave so deep, NuTrek was the only way to bring ST back.

Remember, fans wanted to see the OS cast and their defined universe return as soon as the series was cancelled. TAS addressed that desire to a degree, but that just proved audiences really wanted more of TOS (not a reboot), and eventually that happened with the further adventures on the big screen.

We cannot say that about the Berman films, because the moment the last episode of the horrible Enterprise aired, and the last big screen film left theatres, the main fan base or interested parties among the general public were not demanding the return of the TNG/DS9/VOY or ENT casts or universe to return. There's a reason why--not ST burnout, but the tone and lack of quality of Berman (and associates) production.

[Nerys Myk]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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TMP was not a reboot, but a continuation of the same characters and their experiences from TOS, which is what Phase II was going to be before the production shited gears to feature films. That was the opposite situation of the Berman productions, which dug a grave so deep, NuTrek was the only way to bring ST back.

Remember, fans wanted to see the OS cast and their defined universe return as soon as the series was cancelled. TAS addressed that desire to a degree, but that just proved audiences really wanted more of TOS (not a reboot), and eventually that happened with the further adventures on the big screen.

We cannot say that about the Berman films, because the moment the last episode of the horrible Enterprise aired, and the last big screen film left theatres, the main fan base or interested parties among the general public were not demanding the return of the TNG/DS9/VOY or ENT casts or universe to return. There's a reason why--not ST burnout, but the tone and lack of quality of Berman (and associates) production.

Sorry, but what I saw in theater in 1979 was not a continuation of what I watched on TV in the 60s and 70s. While it used the same actors and names for the characters it also reimagined them in many ways. Ditto for TWOK. Both gave the illusion of continuing from TOS, but in far too many ways theY were divergent.

I'm sure you could find fans of all the "Berman" series and films who are very vocal about their favorites returning to either the small or large screen. Hell, you'll them right here on this very website!!!! Including the "horrible" Enterprise.