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Old October 19 2012, 06:30 PM   #46
Merry Christmas
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Kegg wrote: View Post
...and add to this a lot of what one can write for a chaplain can also be written for a counselor.
The opposite would also be true, much of what we saw Deanna doing (outside of the mindreading) could have been handled by the ship's chaplain. There has been suggestions that the chaplain would/should have another job aboard the ship.

Have the chaplain and councilor be the same person.



Last edited by Merry Christmas; October 19 2012 at 08:05 PM.
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Old October 30 2012, 04:59 PM   #47
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

I tend to agree with a lot of what's been said. It is my impression also that they have moved beyond the belief in a god of any kind. I remember in the novelization for Star Trek 2, when Chekov and the others beamed down to Seti Alpha 5.5, and they were in Khan's quarters, Chekov saw a Bible, and he thought "Ah, 20th century mythology."

Of course spirituality isn't necessarily the same as religion, so there might be some sort of chaplain duties needed, but as many people have said, a counselor might be able to handle those duties.
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Old October 30 2012, 06:45 PM   #48
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

I think this idea makes a great deal of sense. Think of some of the anomalies the characters run into -- being turned into children, meeting creatures that proclaim to be gods or take on the form of religious figures, fun with DNA, and space being the great unknown. While the officers on duty some of this has got to screw with their minds and get them thinking about spiritual matters.

I guess that a Starfleet Chaplain would be like a counselor that specializes in existenial questions that can't be answered; as opposed to a counselor, who helps you work through emotional trauma/conflicts/depression. A counselor could work you through these problems as well, of course, but splitting the position might be useful -- one to keep the crew's mental/emotional health in check, one to help with those bigger un-answerable questions.

I also don't have a problem believing that a Starfleet Chaplain could be well-versed in hundreds of different religions and philosophiess. I mean, I already accept that Starfleet has these wonder-engineers that can squint at a screen of data and come up with new techniques never before attempted that work perfectly. It would be like the potential career path for those religious studies and philosophy majors in the Trek universe.

Even if the humans in Trek have moved beyond religion, and are 'evolved' humans, they've still got to have some of the kinds of questions that keep you up at night. Trek is always trumpeting what it means to be human, and i think that's a part of it too.
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Old October 30 2012, 09:34 PM   #49
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Star Trek is about the future of humanity and of exploration, (well it used to be). The last thing Star Trek needs is to return to the dark ages of the military, fear, superstition and doctrine, something that has emerged of late. This is starfleet not the Royal/U.S Navy. Starfleet was founded to seek out and explore in peace, not exploit and conquer in war.
Since the end of TNG the franchise has slowly slid into a militaristic side show.
to quote Jean luc Picard "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers"
If someone needs religion they don't need a priest/chaplain
I would have thought we were beyond such nonsense ...
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Old October 31 2012, 12:28 AM   #50
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

John Mason wrote: View Post
Star Trek is about the future of humanity and of exploration, (well it used to be). The last thing Star Trek needs is to return to the dark ages of the military, fear, superstition and doctrine, something that has emerged of late. This is starfleet not the Royal/U.S Navy. Starfleet was founded to seek out and explore in peace, not exploit and conquer in war.
Since the end of TNG the franchise has slowly slid into a militaristic side show.
to quote Jean luc Picard "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers"
If someone needs religion they don't need a priest/chaplain
I would have thought we were beyond such nonsense ...
Star Trek has aways been about exploration.

But it has also always been about exploring while armed to the teeth and never afraid to shoot.

Your comments about religion are not helpful though.

Religion has been around for 6,000 years on Earth.

It will certainly be around 300 more.
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Old October 31 2012, 01:01 AM   #51
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Unless it isn't.

Hey, why not a Starfleet Ship's Occultist as a main character? "Captain. the cards suggest that this course of action might not be prudent!"
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Old October 31 2012, 01:08 AM   #52
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

chardman wrote: View Post
Unless it isn't.

Hey, why not a Starfleet Ship's Occultist as a main character? "Captain. the cards suggest that this course of action might not be prudent!"
"Sorry, this sickbay is homeopathic only, but I'm sure some green tea will heal that plasma burn!"
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Old October 31 2012, 03:23 AM   #53
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

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Old October 31 2012, 03:27 AM   #54
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

John Mason wrote: View Post
This is starfleet not the Royal/U.S Navy.
Starfleet has alway had a relationship with the Royal Navy as it was during the days of sail centuries ago. An organization that engaged in national defense, global exploration, protection of trade, and support of colonies.

How isn't that Starfleet?

If someone needs religion they don't need a priest/chaplain
Whether a chaplain was needed (or not) would be up to individuals and groups. Whether Starfleet would provide one is a question. A chaplain would be there to administer various religious rites. For some on board, to hear their confession and offer absolution. Could a councilor do this? Not all religion is do it yourself.

In the occasionally violent world of Star Trek, the chaplain could be there to perform last rites, or it's equivalent for other faiths.

Part of a Starfleet chaplain official duties might be to agree to be a willing vessel for the Katra of any Vulcans on board.

I would have thought we were beyond such nonsense
Hardly nonsense, and hopefully neither we, nor others from beyond Earth, will ever be "beyond it."

chardman wrote: View Post
Occultist as a main character
A friend of mine in the building where I live is a Pagan (lot's of Pagans in Seattle). One of my cousins is a Wiccan. If either was the trained chaplain aboard the starship to which I was assigned, I would have no problem going to either of them for my Christian practices.

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Old November 3 2012, 02:06 AM   #55
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

As a well fleshed out recurring supporting cast member? Sure, could be interesting and fun.

As a main character? No thanks. I see a lot of possible negatives and very few positives. I can't see many people thinking "wow the new Trek has a Chaplain, I MUST watch it now!!"
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Old November 3 2012, 08:48 PM   #56
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Asking if a chaplain could work as a main character is like asking if a counselor could work as a main character.

Sure, why not? The character just has to be interesting beyond just the job description.
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Old November 12 2012, 02:40 PM   #57
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Hardly nonsense, and hopefully neither we, nor others from beyond Earth, will ever be "beyond it."
I have no problem with spirituality, but I consider organized religion nonsense and hope we will move beyond that.

I'm also against a chaplain aboard federation ships, it's not just an international crew, it's an interplanetary crew, there are too many faiths and belief systems for it to work. A counsellor can do the job much better than a chaplain who is clearly a member of a specific belief system, of course the counsellor can have a religion too, but they're not part of the job description.
Imagine a bajoran vedek having the chaplain job on a ship, could someone from earth relate to him? After all his "gods" are real, you can literally visit them, there's no doubt that they exist, even if you consider them to be just wormhole aliens, you know they are real. There's a very big disconnect that's not comparable to christians and muslims for example, as those religions are basically identical.
Of course a bajoran counsellor would most likely have the same faith, but it's just not as obvious.
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Old November 12 2012, 06:08 PM   #58
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?


Imagine a bajoran vedek having the chaplain job on a ship, could someone from earth relate to him? After all his "gods" are real, you can literally visit them, there's no doubt that they exist, even if you consider them to be just wormhole aliens, you know they are real. .
Even with this in mind I still believe that there would some atheists on Bajor. There were a lot of doubters up until Emissary. Some people never had a vision when they visited the orb. To my knowledge you never heard Ro Laren mention them. Certainly some people who felt especially hard done by the occupation might question where their gods were during the suffering.
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Old November 13 2012, 12:32 AM   #59
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

I agree that religion is bs but spirituality is not. We were supposed to have freedom OF religion (spirituality) not freedom FROM religion. The short answer as to why we wouldn't see that is someone would get ticked off (regardless of what faith) and then we'll have to deal with the ACLU.
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Old November 13 2012, 11:51 AM   #60
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Gene Roddenberry, raised as a southern baptist, was agnostic in his adult life. If i remember correctly, i read that Roddenberry predicted religion would be extinct in the future and hence no Chaplin on star trek vessels in his version of the future. Maybe the nearest thing was the very secular Counselor Deanna Troi.

If you really want a religious type of Counselor, i would go for the snake handlers of the Pentecostal denomination. I would love to see the Chaplin handling a snake in the background while Picard negotiates with the Cardassians.

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