Mad Men, Season 5. General Discussion Thread (spoilers welcome)

[the G-man]

I'd just assumed Kartheiser's hair was receding and it became more pronounced when they gave him that 50s-60s suburban dad cut

[Donald Draper]

Recent pictures of him outside the show his hair was not receding. Which is why I noticed. Its a smart move. A lot of time has passed for the characters since the the Pilot. The growing generation gap has been a looming theme. In that time period Pete would have been seen as middle aged! How things have changed.

[CaptainCanada]

On another forum people were discussing Mad Men and Breaking Bad in terms of how they differ in going forward, now that the end is in sight for both. They're an interesting contrast, with being on opposite ends of the expectations/difficulty spectrum.

Which is to say, you might think that Mad Men is a harder show to end, in a way, since it's less obvious what a satisfying ending to the show would look like. But by the same token, there's no huge weight of expectations around any particular ending. Mad Men is really structured as a series of short stories that accumulate detail over time; there's no big overarching narrative. And even a less-than-stellar ending wouldn't really undermine the preceding ones.

Conversely, Breaking Bad has a much clearer ending, or, at least, general direction (Walt's fall, though there are a range of options on the table there - he can be alive and a drug kingpin, but at the cost of his family, etc.; he can be caught by Hank; he can be gunned down by rivals, or by Jesse, etc.). But the whole series has been building to this point, and fans have been speculating on how this will play out for years, meaning there's a lot more expectations for what a good ending to the show will look like. And if they falter (I don't think they will, mind you) on the show's ultimate payoff, it would diminish the show.

[Lord Garth]

the G-man wrote:

---

I'd just assumed Kartheiser's hair was receding and it became more pronounced when they gave him that 50s-60s suburban dad cut

Nope. They shaved his hairline back to make him look older.

Donald Draper wrote:

---

Its a smart move. A lot of time has passed for the characters since the the Pilot. The growing generation gap has been a looming theme. In that time period Pete would have been seen as middle aged! How things have changed.

That's just our perception. At 32, I don't identify myself as "middle-aged" but when I look around at 15-year-olds, I might as well be.

[Snaploud]

Lord Garth wrote:

---

Nope. They shaved his hairline back to make him look older.

My first thought was that I hoped they offered him a pay raise, but it doesn't sound as if extra money would affect his lifestyle much.

Kartheiser lives ascetically: he eschews car ownership, instead walking or taking mass transit; he currently lives in a bungalow he describes as a "wooden box" with no mirrors; and he has been selling or giving away everything he owns.[6] At one time it was reported he did not own a toilet, but he has since denied this.[7] Kartheiser is a vegetarian[8] and has chosen not to have children describing both decisions as "green choices."[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Kartheiser

[the G-man]

Lord Garth wrote:

---

That's just our perception. At 32, I don't identify myself as "middle-aged" ...

In 1967, the general perception was that someone who was 32 was middle aged, or close to it. The average lifespan of an American male in 1960 was 66. People got married a lot younger as well. Furthermore, the mantra of the youth was (or was about to be) "don't trust anyone over 30," on the premise that 30 was when people became "old fashioned" and stuck in their ways.

[Donald Draper]

Well said the G-man. That is exactly the point I was making. Times have changed. I will be 34 in one month and I don't feel middle aged. Not just personal ego but cultural changes.

Paul McCartney is going to be 70 years old on Monday! I get younger girls, teenaged and twenty somethings, complimenting my Beatles shirts. When I tell them I have seen Paul in concert, they are amazed and say thats on their bucket list. You would never had young girls wanting to see 70 year old musicans perform in the 1960s.

[Temis the Vorta]

Pete's punchable face (among other amusements.)

[Lord Garth]

How different would Mad Men be if it were set today?

What could go virtually unaltered, how much could still work if it were modified to fit the times, and how much couldn't happen at all?

Don Draper could still be raised in a farm, and his childhood wouldn't have to change that much. The bad economy and rampant inflation of the '70s and early-'80s could substitute for the Depression. Archibald could still own horses and, under different circumstances, still end up dead because he was struck dead by a horse scared of thunder.

If he wanted to get away, he could join the army and be sent to somewhere like Bosnia, circa 1993, which would put Don in the ballpark of 40 today. Identity theft was (and is) still common but I don't think Don could get away with it to such an extent in the '90s, so the Dick Whitman aspect of the character would have to be dropped. Even if he legally changed his name from "Dick Whitman" to "Don Draper", it still wouldn't be the same.

That's for starters.

Betty would probably not be a bored housewife unless she decided to only be one until her kids were old enough to go to school; which would make her still try returning to modeling after she had left it, even if the context would be different. Betty dealing with being cheated on would be the same. The process of getting divorced would be different and simpler. Would she still attach herself to Henry?

Peggy's origin would be completely different. She wouldn't start off as a secretary. She'd have gone to school for advertising. She could still work in a male-dominated environment but it wouldn't be the same.

Pete, if he were the same, would've been fired from the start because of sexual harassment. He would've been charged for raping the German woman for sure. He'd be off the show no matter what. Pete would have to change the most in order for him to stay. He could stay rude, arrogant, and rub everyone the wrong way, but that's where it would end. He'd be much less powerful.

There'd have to be another industry besides tobacco that Sterling Cooper would have to lean on that's unhealthy. I'd say fast food, but Sterling Cooper should represent something unhealthy that wouldn't take away from the prestige and high-class nature of the series.

Could the transition from SC to SCDP happen or would PPL have put in place-guards to prevent the defection of Lane and the Partners who gutted their sale of SC to McCann?

[the G-man]

Considering that the whole point of the show is to use an ad agency and its employees to encapsulate the drastic changes in the U.S. during the 1960s, and considering that part of the reason it set in ad agency is because the sixties are considered the golden age of advertising, setting the story in a different era would make it a completely different program.

[the G-man]

As far the speculation that Megan and Don are splitting up, the New York Post has a picture from next season's filming and describes the scene as follows:

• The cast and crew of “Mad Men” spent the week in Hawaii, here shooting a scene with Jon Hamm’s ad exec, Don Draper, on vacation with wife, Megan, played by Jessica Paré.

[gblews]

the G-man wrote:

---

As far the speculation that Megan and Don are splitting up, the New York Post has a picture from next season's filming and describes the scene as follows:

• The cast and crew of “Mad Men” spent the week in Hawaii, here shooting a scene with Jon Hamm’s ad exec, Don Draper, on vacation with wife, Megan, played by Jessica Paré.

Of course this still doesn't answer the question of whether or not Don cheated on Megan.

[CaptainCanada]

Matthew Weiner's interview after the finale seemed to suggest that the answer was no, however else their relationship had changed.