RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,938
Posts: 5,478,980
Members: 25,057
Currently online: 484
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 27 2012, 06:57 AM   #271
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

I'm the opposite with the Klingons part. Trials, they can be really good or bad. It depends.
----------------

Horizon


Poor Mayweather. Archer telling him about his father's recommendation was so touching. It was nice that Travis got to meet with his family and teach his brother a few things.

Grade: B plus
-------------

The Breach


This was an interesting episode about tolerance and forgiveness. Phlox has gradually moved from being an annoying character to someone you can actually like and feel for. I'm also noticing that T'Pol doesn't use as many contractions. It was nice to see a trio other than Trip, Archer, and T'Pol.

Grade: B
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27 2012, 08:05 AM   #272
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Boy I'm getting creaky, had to look The Breach up to remember what it was. A classic Trek ep full of LESSONS about prejudice. Yeah.

I love Phlox so Phlox heavy eps have my approval.

They should have canned Horizon in favor of a soap opera ep about Phlox and his lovely wives.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27 2012, 10:45 PM   #273
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Your grades seem to be getting more forgiving. Stockholm Syndrome?
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27 2012, 11:37 PM   #274
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One



Isn't that how we all sit there, nodding along to all kinds of Trek nonsense?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28 2012, 12:46 AM   #275
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

I just try to enjoy the series for what it is. Things that are ongoing problems, like the captain, I try not to hold against the series. I base my grades on rewatchability, but of course when you get used to something you might be kinder. So, I guess that's a possibility.
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 01:10 AM   #276
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Spook/Hoorah! Admirer wrote: View Post
The Crossing


This was okay. I liked the way the inside of their (the "wisps") ship looked.

Grade: C
A "C" grade? This was the first Enterprise episode I ever saw, and I remember that I had just seen "The Lights Of Zetar" a few weeks earlier (which wasn't one of TOS's best episodes) but I felt like this was a sorry rip-off of Zetar and wasn't even interesting. Even the last episodes of Voyager (with B'Elanna crying about her kid) were better than this piece of trash where the plot was used up in the first ten minutes, and then it was fifty-(yawn) boring minutes of hiding and talking about what to do.

Grade: R(eject)

(Zetar I would give a Rating of B- too.)
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 01:22 AM   #277
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Didn't much care for "The Crossing" either - and Berman admitted it went nowhere, IIRC - but at least the massive ship made for a nice change of scale. Far better than another boring cave or two a la "The Breach", though neither were really much fun.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 01:41 AM   #278
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Well that first VHS that I saw also had the Klingon court episode, and then went upto the Borg episode (but it only did that because my uncle had missed the Canamar episode). By the end of the tape I remember thinking how the Borg episode had been the only near-near-decent episode on the whole tape (and by near-near I mean it wasn't near decent, but it was just below). But now that I've seen all 4 seasons on DVD I can see that the first three seasons were piles of trash that somehow made it out of space dock and onto TV. Perhaps it was fitting that the series ended with TATV being he piece of trash it was.
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 01:58 AM   #279
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Well, Tom, I probably haven't seen Zetar, and most of the episodes of TOS I have seen were so long ago that I can't remember them. I'm honestly just going off of these episodes as they stand by themselves and how they work within this series. Maybe that makes me too nice, but no one's going to claim I'm nice on how I rated this next episode. I don't know about garbage, but I beg to differ on Judgment. That was the only episode I've seen so far that kind of made me feel like I was watching a DS9 caliber episode--kind of. And for this series, that garners an A-. It's all relative.

I decided long ago not to hold things, like the captain, that were clearly going to be ongoing issues against the entire series, and to just go off of what I think the rewatchability factor is for a fresh viewer. So, for you, it may be a total Reject, and that's fine, but I still grade it as a C. This means that the episode is rewatchable, but there's nothing about it that would cause a fresh viewer to love it or hate it for any particular reason.
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 02:05 AM   #280
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Congenitor



"It has no name." Okay, something's up with that. I was a little suspicious when these newly met beings were willing to provide upgrades and such without knowing the Enterprise crew and that Archer would appear to accept so readily. Too good to be true comes to mind. I think this is also the first mention of neutrinos.

The, I guess, genderism of this species is so sad. I think they don't allow the cogenitors to read or write or make choices or participate in society because it sounds like you need all 3 sexes to reproduce, and since cogenitors are only 3% of the population, if they are allowed to choose who they mate with, then the roles might be reversed and they might have all of the power and that probably scares the majority. As advanced as they are technologically, there is no reason to believe they don't know that the cogenitor's intelligence is the same as theirs, so why they treat them as subhuman, and how casual they are with their hatred, is once again so sad. The cogenitor is basically a sex-slave, and these "nice people" are her oppressors.

"You did exactly what I'd do? If that's true, then I've been setting a pretty lousy example around here." - Archer

Trip was just as clumsy and reckless about doing the right thing, and it's interesting that Archer sees his approach as different. He's offered help to people before they've asked for it. And once the "girl" realized what help was, she wanted it desperately. To me, it kind of seemed like Archer wanted to look the other way because of the cool tech they had access to.

"Do you know how long we've waited to be given a Cogenitor?" just seals the deal on how bad these people are. She's clearly seen as "property for rent" and nothing more. I'm so disgusted. As soon as "she" got a taste of freedom, that poor Cogenitor just couldn't go back when she saw that there was more to life than what was forced onto "her." Such a sad story, and I hope sometime in the future of this series, the Cogenitors rise up for their independence.

Archer's little speech at the end, while right in its own way, was dead wrong. That "woman" had the right to CHOOSE not to help that couple have a child if she didn't want to. She was not their property, and whatever child could have been had would have been a child born of rape, and I do mean rape. The same way underage teens aren't able to give consent, neither was she because of how she'd been brought up to not have any choices. Both are issues of development: One, in which the development is natural, and the other, where the development is purposefully impeded by outside forces/sexes.

And maybe if the good old captain hadn't been out joyriding for a few days, the issue of how they treat their Cogenitors could have been at least addressed in a diplomatic way as a difference between peoples, and Trip wouldn't have had to try acting alone when he saw an injustice. I get the whole "Prime Directive" aspect of this, and the advice T'Pol and Phlox gave Trip was right while Archer was gone, but Trip was right too. That poor "girl" lived more in a couple of days with him than she did in her entire existence.

Grade: F plus
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 11:40 AM   #281
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

I've fainted.

Everything you say is WHY this is one of the series greatest episodes. Because it's full of issues and challenges us on the very Trek assumptions of non-interference. We've had the prime directive and respect for other ways of doing things shoved up our noses since forever and it's good, very very good to see what this can actually mean for individuals and cultures. In this case both suffered from interference and yet we can't bring ourselves to not sympathize with the interference.

I like seeing how incredibly complicated inter species contact really is, not just silly things like the Tak Tak but the real horrors and dilemmas of completely different cultures and physiologies and people. Too often in Trek the Feds save the day through pious speeches, or they walk away and pat themselves on the back for doing so, either way everyone wins. This time no one won. No one. And that was just a whole lot more interesting.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 11:59 AM   #282
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

teacock wrote: View Post
I've fainted.

Everything you say is WHY this is one of the series greatest episodes. Because it's full of issues and challenges us on the very Trek assumptions of non-interference. We've had the prime directive and respect for other ways of doing things shoved up our noses since forever and it's good, very very good to see what this can actually mean for individuals and cultures. In this case both suffered from interference and yet we can't bring ourselves to not sympathize with the interference.

I like seeing how incredibly complicated inter species contact really is, not just silly things like the Tak Tak but the real horrors and dilemmas of completely different cultures and physiologies and people. Too often in Trek the Feds save the day through pious speeches, or they walk away and pat themselves on the back for doing so, either way everyone wins. This time no one won. No one. And that was just a whole lot more interesting.
And that's where the "plus" comes from. My problem with this episode wasn't the fact that it dealt with a difficult dilemma, or that non-interference was challenged (at least by Trip). My problem was that out of ALL of the senior staff, Trip was the ONLY one to see a problem with this species. Even Archer and Co. immediately considered, and even tried, helping that colony of people that held the developing group back, all the way up to actually creating a cure. And there, the developing group was treated A LOT BETTER than these Cogenitors. I strongly feel that instead of leaping off to go joyriding as soon as he meets these people, as the Captain of the Starship, Archer should have taken a little more care to get to know them a bit. If that meant he didn't get to have some fun with their leader in the end, then so be it.

Their mission is to explore and get to know about the new civilizations they meet, and that has to come before fun. I don't even know if he stuck around long enough to know that a Cogenitor was there (did he or anyone besides Trip even care?). The other thing was the captain's ironic berating of Trip, and the fact that it seemed to me that the only reason why he was so willing to look the other way was because of their technology. Now, what does that say about our dear captain? Not much at all. The hypocrisy.
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 12:36 PM   #283
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

Well you could argue it sets excellent precedent for future lacks of morality concerning prime directive issues.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 02:04 PM   #284
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

^ Well, please tell me those lacks of morality and decency don't get much worse than this one. My problem was that the "directive" Archer vaguely described, and that he's apparently now following in this particular episode, wasn't really dealt with. Normally, captain soapbox has a lot to say, but here he's so hush-hush. You can't help but to wonder why is that? And the answer is so disturbingly bad.

I really do not give an F grade lightly, and this episode , and our Enterprise crew, failed badly on 3 major fronts to me:

1 - Actually dealing with the issue.


To delve into this, I'll have to back up a little because I think in my hastily written previous post I didn't explain what I meant well enough. What I meant by what I said is that Archer and Co. were willing to consider, and even try, helping a group of people that weren’t necessarily the best people, while in the case of the Cogenitors, they were pretty much blameless and no argument on their behalf was ever made. Obviously, Archer wasn’t going to be able to change their circumstances, but he could have tried to open a delicate dialogue about how Earth learned over many centuries that to hold one group of people back, just because of how they are born, isn’t the best way to do things in the end. Picard would have opened up a dialogue, Sisko, and Kirk, but Archer was too interested in joyriding. Usually Archer loves making his holier-than- thou speeches and brushes off T’Pol’s suggestions to let other cultures just do what they do, but it seems as though his soap box disappeared as soon as he saw what was in it for them to keep their mouths shut. It’s the equivalent of him treating the technology and the fun as “hush money.“

Now, of course, had Archer actually opened this dialogue, their leader would have come back with their conclusion that things were working just fine, but then Archer could have asked about why someone’s sex makes them more or less an object, and did they know these “Cogenitors” could have thoughts and feelings and the desire to make their own choices? And if they did know this, then is every Cogenitor coming to this same conclusion as well in order to provide consent? That’s when he could have delicately used “Charles” as a possible example if they were willing to see what she would choose if she were given the choice. Any resistance to that would have just proven that they knew that they were oppressors of an innocent group of people, and depending on what happened afterwards, the 2 groups of people might have had to go their separate ways, but at least the integrity of the senior staff of the Enterprise and their captain would have still been intact by episode’s end. Here, what actually happened was that Trip brought up this injustice and no one else really seemed to care; him bringing it up was even treated kind of like it was an annoyance. So, that’s number one.

2. Hypocrisy

I'm going to guess that one of the main reasons why the prime directive was invented was because you can't afford to get involved in everyone's problems, as well as the "live and let live" aspect of it. And I know Archer's not the most consistent person to begin with, but his hypocrisy, as well as Phlox's was very interesting to me. T'Pol was consistent because she usually says to stay out of things, but I think even here she should have expressed some horror at how a group of people are basically imprisioned from birth, just because of how they are born, then kept in a room 24 hours a day, with only one meal (of someone else's choosing), and only "taken out" to be used for sexual/reproductive purposes with people they don't know, don't like, and are not interested in. Whew.

Moving into the hypocrisy, well, I've already mentioned Archer's missing soapbox, but there's Dr. Phlox too. In both episodes you could say that the Enterprise crew just let nature take its course, but that's not true for a few reasons. First, what was happening in the case of the Cogenitors was not natural, unlike the epidemic with the other species. And two, even with that species, they didn't entirely let nature take its course. They did leave them with some help and data, I believe, so they were willing to interfere some there. And lastly, and this is where the real hypocrisy comes in, is that they did choose to play God based off of preferences, because really, after they made the cure, they were playing God either way.

Archer was going to give the dominant group the cure until Phlox, after spending time with the subordinate group and seeing their developing abilities, potential, and kind nature, came to like the subordinate group and prefer them over the group that was trending out. Then it was let nature take its course. He made a choice based off of the time he spent getting to know and like them. Had he not made his recommendation, the dominant group would have gotten their cure. Trip did the same thing. He spent time with "Charles" and came to find out that she was just as capable as the other sexes, and he came to like her, so he advocated for her. So, why wasn't his advocating taken with the same weight by Archer that Phlox's was. These Cogenitors had far less freedom than the subordinate race that Phlox wanted to have the "room to grow." Why didn't Phlox care about the way these people were treated, I can't even say against their will because they're not allowed to have "a will." I see spending time with the good doctor has its benefits.

Back to "why," well it keeps coming back to what was in it for them. And by them, I mean the Enterprise crew. That seemed to be Archer's primary concern. So, of course, now whenever Archer harps on about an injustice and how somebody oughtta stand up and say or do something, waiving a finger in someone's face, I will be reminded of this episode, and how he was all to willing to keep quiet when the price was right. He berated Trip, using the fact that "Charles" didn't specifically ask him to learn how to read as something against Trip (), but the subordinate race didn't ask Phlox not to help the dominant race. I didn't see Archer giving any lectures there... Oh, I think I'll move on to number 3.

3. Lack of Caring

I understand that in this situation they probably weren't going to make any major changes, but they could have cared. The only person that did this was Trip, and that's sad. I could go into detail, but I'm tired of typing. I think I've made my point. This was such a failure in the character of the senior staff, Archer in particular as captain, that I just had to give it an F grade with a plus for the bit that did work.
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 08:55 PM   #285
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: My Trek Through Enterprise: Season One

I feel the same way about "Cogenitor" for the same reasons, S/U Fan. On paper it should have been one of ENT's all-time greats, but Archer's behavior and his hypocritical reaction towards Trip bring it way down in my estimation.
Skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
enterprise, reviews, season one

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.