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Old October 26 2012, 03:23 PM   #1
indolover
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Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

I think it was aspects like this that let Voyager down.

I've never served in the Navy before, but I doubt any officer is a Ensign for that period.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:36 PM   #2
Sindatur
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

indolover wrote: View Post
I think it was aspects like this that let Voyager down.

I've never served in the Navy before, but I doubt any officer is a Ensign for that period.
Single ship, no other ship to transfer to, only so many commissions to go around, no one above Harry died or transferred for him to be given their Title, and obviously there was no ship for Harry to transfer to for a promotion. It just wanted possible. But we were shown that once they got back to The Federation he was indeed promoted, at least all the way up to Captain eventually. Personally, I believe this is something they got right.

Or, you could choose to believe Captain Janeway just wanted to make the boy suffer.
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Old October 26 2012, 04:05 PM   #3
Pavonis
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

For a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant, upward mobility for the crew shouldn't have been a concern. There was never any chance any of them were going to get promotions except by attrition. Certainly it's as reasonable to ask why Janeway was never promoted to admiral as to ask why Kim was an ensign for seven years. Promotion is only useful when there's somewhere to go when you're promoted. Having every officer on the ship at commander rank would've been possible, but Kim would've always been the most junior commander, and still would've had to do the same job.

That being said, when Paris was demoted to ensign, the show runners could have promoted Kim to lieutenant, junior grade rather than promoting Paris back to lieutenant, j.g. Not that rank ever was an issue between Tom and Harry, but it would've been funny for their ranks to have been swapped to see how it changed their dynamics.
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Old October 26 2012, 04:16 PM   #4
jpch
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

i dunno what the rules are but it was explained on screen in season 7 episode ''Nightingale'' by Captain Janeway.
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Old October 26 2012, 04:41 PM   #5
indolover
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
I think it was aspects like this that let Voyager down.

I've never served in the Navy before, but I doubt any officer is a Ensign for that period.
Single ship, no other ship to transfer to, only so many commissions to go around, no one above Harry died or transferred for him to be given their Title, and obviously there was no ship for Harry to transfer to for a promotion. It just wanted possible. But we were shown that once they got back to The Federation he was indeed promoted, at least all the way up to Captain eventually. Personally, I believe this is something they got right.

Or, you could choose to believe Captain Janeway just wanted to make the boy suffer.
I don't buy that. Tuvok got promoted, but still had the same position. Rank and position aren't the same thing. There were numerous promotions in TNG and DS9 in which characters had advances in rank and not position, and this was often done in recognition of good work and not for new positions elsewhere. I think it was even said once that officers are automatically promoted to Lt. junior grade after three years or so.

For his good work as an officer, that alone signals promotion-worthy. Just shows how the show was poorly managed lol..
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Old October 26 2012, 04:43 PM   #6
indolover
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
For a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant, upward mobility for the crew shouldn't have been a concern. There was never any chance any of them were going to get promotions except by attrition. Certainly it's as reasonable to ask why Janeway was never promoted to admiral as to ask why Kim was an ensign for seven years. Promotion is only useful when there's somewhere to go when you're promoted. Having every officer on the ship at commander rank would've been possible, but Kim would've always been the most junior commander, and still would've had to do the same job.

That being said, when Paris was demoted to ensign, the show runners could have promoted Kim to lieutenant, junior grade rather than promoting Paris back to lieutenant, j.g. Not that rank ever was an issue between Tom and Harry, but it would've been funny for their ranks to have been swapped to see how it changed their dynamics.
Same as above. As one of many examples, Worf technically got promoted twice in TNG's run, yet only assumed a new position when Tasha Yar died (he was a Lt. Junior Grade in Encounter at Farpoint). Geordi technically received three promotions.
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Old October 26 2012, 04:56 PM   #7
Pavonis
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Yes, yes, yes - rank and position are separate concepts. Hence my point that regardless of Kim's rank he'd still have the same position. So why promote him? He'd have no more responsibilities than he would as an ensign, and no more opportunities to demonstrate leadership capability, so why give him an extra pip? What's he going to do with it, get extra replicator rations?
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Old October 26 2012, 05:24 PM   #8
R. Star
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

I dunno, I kind of liked that Voyager went out of their way not to have everyone at lieutenant commander/commander like TOS/TNG did.

And honestly, if Voyager had bothered to do an epilogue instead of "oh they're home, the end" it's safe to assume Kim would've been promoted then, if from nothing other than sheer pity.

Honestly I think the real reason Kim stayed an Ensign was because Wang didn't endear himself to his co-workers.
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Old October 26 2012, 05:46 PM   #9
indolover
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Yes, yes, yes - rank and position are separate concepts. Hence my point that regardless of Kim's rank he'd still have the same position. So why promote him? He'd have no more responsibilities than he would as an ensign, and no more opportunities to demonstrate leadership capability, so why give him an extra pip? What's he going to do with it, get extra replicator rations?
the same applied to Tuvok. After his promotion he was still Security Chief/Tactical Officer and (presumably) Second Officer.
Sometimes promotions are given out of recognition for good work, not solely for greater responsibilities.
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Old October 26 2012, 05:51 PM   #10
MacLeod
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
For a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant, upward mobility for the crew shouldn't have been a concern. There was never any chance any of them were going to get promotions except by attrition. Certainly it's as reasonable to ask why Janeway was never promoted to admiral as to ask why Kim was an ensign for seven years. Promotion is only useful when there's somewhere to go when you're promoted. Having every officer on the ship at commander rank would've been possible, but Kim would've always been the most junior commander, and still would've had to do the same job.

That being said, when Paris was demoted to ensign, the show runners could have promoted Kim to lieutenant, junior grade rather than promoting Paris back to lieutenant, j.g. Not that rank ever was an issue between Tom and Harry, but it would've been funny for their ranks to have been swapped to see how it changed their dynamics.
Agreed, that might have been a good way to change the character dynamic by promoting Kim to the vaccant Lt. JG spot.
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Old October 26 2012, 05:54 PM   #11
Pavonis
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Medals are given out for good work, not promotions, though the writers and producers of Star Trek didn't really get that apparently.

Maybe Kim just didn't earn a promotion because he's a poor officer, and if he hadn't been stranded in the DQ, he'd eventually have been forced out of the service.
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Old October 26 2012, 10:15 PM   #12
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

If they decided to go the route of a generational ship eventually he would have been promoted.
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Old October 27 2012, 02:12 AM   #13
Elvira
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Promotion is only useful when there's somewhere to go when you're promoted.
Harry Kim to have received no promotion for seven years would have looked bad for his Starfleet career. The fact would permanently be noted in Kim's service record. When a officer remains at the very bottom of the rank scale for a protracted time period, there's a reason.

Janeway made the decision to maintain Kim where he was.

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Old October 27 2012, 03:13 AM   #14
R. Star
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Promotion is only useful when there's somewhere to go when you're promoted.
Harry Kim to have received no promotion for seven years would have looked bad for his Starfleet career. The fact would permanently be noted in Kim's service record. When a officer remains at the very bottom of the rank scale for a protracted time period, there's a reason.

Janeway made the decision to maintain Kim where he was.

That's what happens when you catch an alien STD.
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Old October 27 2012, 03:27 AM   #15
teacock
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Re: Was it ever stated officially why Harry was an Ensign for 7 years?

"Have you ever been in love, Captain?"

He's lucky he's still an ensign and not airlocked after that scene.
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