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Old October 26 2012, 03:49 AM   #1111
Ancient Mariner
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

It's precious.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:53 AM   #1112
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Holy shit, that's amazing!
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Old October 26 2012, 04:15 AM   #1113
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Chris3123 wrote: View Post
Peter Jackson reveals the approximate running time for An Unexpected Journey:

ďItís looking like itís going to be about ten minutes shorter than Fellowship was," explains Jackson. "So itís going to be officially our shortest Middle-earth yet. I mean, Fellowship was just under three hours and this is about 2 hours 40 minutes at the moment.Ē


The "at the moment" refers to the fact that the credits hadn't yet been added and not all effects shots finalised when we spoke to Jackson, but it's going to be close.
Empire

That's pretty much what I was expecting.
You could tell the entire Hobbit novel in two hours and forty minutes. Seriously, he's going to do three movies on The Hobbit that are going to clock in at at least eight hours? Oh, but of course, Peter Jackson is a genius. The same genius who decided to take a ninety-minute movie in King Kong and turn into into a bloated, three-hour-plus "epic."

Here's hoping it works out but the decision to turn The Hobbit into a trilogy is strictly a money grab by the studio and Peter Jackson's continued love affair with himself. Seriously, it's pretty much him masterbating on-screen for eight hours.
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Old October 26 2012, 01:31 PM   #1114
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

We've had this discussion on every page of this thread. The only way to do so would be to have sparse dialog of cut scenes. There are probably as many events as in the LOTR trilogy, especially if you add the White Counsel and Gandalf's travel to Dol Guldor.

Unexpected Party and Bilbo's Decision
Trolls
Rivendell
Misty Mountains
Riddles in the Dark
Warg Attack
House of Beorn
Spiders of Mirkwood
Stealing from and Killing Smaug
Elves of Mirkwood
Battle of the Five Armies

The Battle of the Five Armies is, what, a page or two in the book? I don't think it's unreasonable to make it an epic battle. The Unexpected Party alone will probably be the first act in the movie based on traditional movie structure. Given this, those two scenes would take up around 2/5 of a movie.

ETA: For what it's worth, my friend informs me that the Hobbit audiobook (or audio drama, not sure which) is six hours long.
ETA2: Nevermind, it's Eleven Hours and Eight Minutes - Damn, Peter Jackson looks like he's going to cut everything out if he wants to squeeze it in only nine hours.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:07 PM   #1115
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Well I applaud your unconditional enthusiasm but if my broad generalisations turn out to be wrong I'll eat my 3d glasses.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:14 PM   #1116
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

So you're seeing the 3D version?

If it ends up feeling long, unfocused, and padded compared to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, I'll agree you were right. However, I do think the Hobbit does more in less space.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:15 PM   #1117
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
You could tell the entire Hobbit novel in two hours and forty minutes. Seriously, he's going to do three movies on The Hobbit that are going to clock in at at least eight hours? Oh, but of course, Peter Jackson is a genius. The same genius who decided to take a ninety-minute movie in King Kong and turn into into a bloated, three-hour-plus "epic."
Nail on the head.

However one parses it Jackson had more individual material for each one of his LOTR movies - including The Two Towers, which shifted a chunk of the novel's actual story to the next film - than he does for the entire Hobbit Trilogy. While incorporating the appendices played an important role in the LOTR films (Arwen's story is drawn entirely from it), it'll play a much more significant and larger role in these films.

That the decision to make it a trilogy rather than a duology also came very late in the game raises eyebrows. So I think they're fair concerns.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:17 PM   #1118
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Alidar Warlock wrote: View Post
The Battle of the Five Armies is, what, a page or two in the book? I don't think it's unreasonable to make it an epic battle.
And other than 'kewl' action, what does that buy you? it was only a couple pages in the book because it was something that our characters weren't really all that involved with. The motivations were kinda spotty, Bilbo stayed in the cave for the most part, and when it was over, he came out and pretty much all were dead.

Do we need 45 minutes of epic sweeping battle shots, establishing characters to have fight, etc? They don't have much to do with the story, before during or after the battle. Just kinda happens, and then Bilbo gets on with his life.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:25 PM   #1119
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I strongly suspect a general audience will be disappointed if we don't. Even if not 45, certainly 15. In the book, it's about five minutes.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:38 PM   #1120
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Regardless of what the best thing to do was in terms of the story and pacing it and all of that, Jackson made the mistake of making it into three films because the concept of doing so still hasn't connected with the potential audience yet. Those people who know that he did it, like us here on this board, are all scratching our heads as to what aspects about the story merit a longer length (The battle of the 5 armies, etc) but the main concern is that so many people - even Hobbit fans, don't know that he even made into three films.

This week I went to two gaming meet-ups and no one that attended (yes we're all geeks) even knew that he had done this. Some people knew by happenstance that he was making two films. Like I mentioned before, people like my mother who like the story were flabbergasted by this: 3 films? WTF?

I think Jackson has caused a lot of confusion among the devotees and the casual film-goers with his decision, regardless of how he justified doing this with the studio. That is the point I think this thread hasn't quite gotten to.
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Old October 26 2012, 03:43 PM   #1121
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Well it just did.
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Old October 27 2012, 04:29 AM   #1122
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Chris3123 wrote: View Post
Peter Jackson reveals the approximate running time for An Unexpected Journey:

ďItís looking like itís going to be about ten minutes shorter than Fellowship was," explains Jackson. "So itís going to be officially our shortest Middle-earth yet. I mean, Fellowship was just under three hours and this is about 2 hours 40 minutes at the moment.Ē


The "at the moment" refers to the fact that the credits hadn't yet been added and not all effects shots finalised when we spoke to Jackson, but it's going to be close.
Empire

That's pretty much what I was expecting.
You could tell the entire Hobbit novel in two hours and forty minutes. Seriously, he's going to do three movies on The Hobbit that are going to clock in at at least eight hours? Oh, but of course, Peter Jackson is a genius. The same genius who decided to take a ninety-minute movie in King Kong and turn into into a bloated, three-hour-plus "epic."
Utter bullshit.

Of course thats why the unabridged recording of the Hobbit is over 11 hours long.

Sure you can speed read through the Hobbit very quickly if you wished, but you wouldn't be doing it at a speed that reflected how fast people move and actions take or how people actually speak.
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Old October 27 2012, 04:56 AM   #1123
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Kegg wrote: View Post
DarthPipes wrote: View Post
You could tell the entire Hobbit novel in two hours and forty minutes. Seriously, he's going to do three movies on The Hobbit that are going to clock in at at least eight hours? Oh, but of course, Peter Jackson is a genius. The same genius who decided to take a ninety-minute movie in King Kong and turn into into a bloated, three-hour-plus "epic."
Nail on the head.

However one parses it Jackson had more individual material for each one of his LOTR movies - including The Two Towers, which shifted a chunk of the novel's actual story to the next film - than he does for the entire Hobbit Trilogy. While incorporating the appendices played an important role in the LOTR films (Arwen's story is drawn entirely from it), it'll play a much more significant and larger role in these films.
Wrong, utterly utterly wrong. The Hobbit has a huge amount of events in it. But it appears to be less then the other books because its written simpler. Almost no dialogue, little description of detail (at least in comparison to how he wrote the Lord of the Rings). Even his prose is much shorter in the Hobbit. But a huge number of events take place. Compare them to similar events in Lord of the Rings and you will see a sizable page difference.

Bilbo's story is (the time from his point of view in his universe) takes as long as Frodo's does, once Frodo packs and leaves Bag End (So kill a few chapters out of Fellowship). The difference is the stakes for the most part are smaller, and that the writing is much, much sparser.

Now you might not like that he is making the films in the same style and manner of the Lord of the Rings. Now thats a valid issue. Perhaps you wanted a brisk first person telling jumping from event to event. Maybe you wanted little to no dialogue, like the story. Thats fine.

But once the choice was made to tell the story in the third person (like Lotr), to have events take time to actually occur, to show the passage of time and getting from place to place. You are looking at a long story. Remember the Lord of the Rings was written just like the Hobbit as one book. Jackson told an 11 hour version of that book, and left hours still on the cutting room floor.

Sp far the only thing I don't like is unlike LoTR, where the first teaser announced it was a multipart film, so far no trailer has mentioned this being a multiple part film. Sure there has been a lot of mainstream press, trade press, and geek press, but the actually tv and movie trailers have yet to make notice of that.

Frau Blucher

Actually I strongly disagreed with you about Jackson not having to cu (he always cuts things from movies) just because he can make a three hour movie anytime doesn't mean he isn't cutting a lot of material as well. He is known for shooting a huge amount of material.

I disagreed about most extended cuts not being good. In fact that aren't that many films that actually have extended cuts released. Now a lot of films put out cut scenes, but the vast majority don't actually edit them into extended cuts. The majority of actual extended cut films I have scene I enjoyed more.

I also don't think keeping a run time from studio mandate is a good thing. If a book as the material for 3 or four hours I want to see it. If a studio says you must turn in a cut of 2 hours (something quite common back when I was younger the 70's and 80's) doesn't mean thats the best way to tell that story. See plenty I disagreed with you.
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Old October 27 2012, 11:22 AM   #1124
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Yeah, I think anyone who thinks there isn't enough material in The Hobbit to sustain at least six hours probably hasn't read the book in a while. There are quite a number of little adventures along the way, but it's written with such brevity--for children, I might add--that things move on at a fairly rapid pace. Add to that whatever they've come up with for the White Council and Dul Guldur and I'm sure there's abundant material there.

My only concern has been where the break point between the films might be. The only thing I can think of is that they're doing a similar thing they did with Helm's Deep and the march of the Ents. There they took some events that were relatively low key in the book and really raise the tension and the stakes so they served as a worthy climax.
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Old October 27 2012, 01:48 PM   #1125
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

mswood wrote: View Post
Wrong, utterly utterly wrong.
Nope. I happen to come from a universe where The Hobbit is a relatively slender book compared to any one of LOTR's three parts. No amount of reframing the argument can fully lead away from that. I also come from a universe where less happens in The Hobbit for a number of reasons, not least of which is it's pretty much entirely just about Bilbo's quest (while LOTR branches off from Frodo).

Also:
But once the choice was made to tell the story in the third person (like Lotr), to have events take time to actually occur, to show the passage of time and getting from place to place. You are looking at a long story.
But I'm not looking at a trilogy. Hell, Jackson wasn't looking at a trilogy until recently. I think you can make a pretty plausible case for the Hobbit to be a three-hour film, and this is for part of the reasons you suggest here - the ability to plausibly expand the setpieces of the novel. And three hours of course would be longer than FOTR was in cinemas.

But past that point you're going to start just draaaaging material out or throwing in bucketloads of Appendices (which, obviously, Jackson plans to do). And even with those Appendices, you're not dealing with the sheer breadth of material that FOTR, TTT or ROTK had to draw on.

Can he pull it off? I hope so. Is it entirely sane to doubt that the director of King Kong and the Lovely Bones may not get things to work? Totally.
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