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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Eternal Tide.
Outstanding 82 49.40%
Above Average 50 30.12%
Average 27 16.27%
Below Average 2 1.20%
Poor 5 3.01%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 15 2012, 10:17 AM   #481
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

teacock wrote: View Post
I gotta say, I'm glad the Klingon Messiah storyline is finished. Bit confused as to what actually happened to them all.. but glad to see the back of that one.

<--that's just for Janeway being back!!
They were supposedly wiped out by the Borg, during the Destiny invasion.
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Old October 16 2012, 08:02 PM   #482
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RonG wrote: View Post
I was wondering what was up with Meegan - hope this is covered in the 2014 (!) novel
The crew could end up possessed by Indigns, as happened with Meegan. Although that would probably be too predictable, since TNG already did that sort of thing with "Power Play"
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Old October 21 2012, 10:31 PM   #483
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I am finally back in Canada after my two-year stint in Korea! During my trip home, I didn't do any updates to my review blog, but I did do a lot of reading. Here, finally, is my review of The Eternal Tide.
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Old October 22 2012, 09:05 PM   #484
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just read this one. I bought it for 8 dollars and some cents. Thats an hour and halfs work. Now it was really confusing some times with all the qs talking, and about the eden and her uncles and all that. But it was enjoyable. Its too bad whats her face came back. I mean why does this even happen to Johnny the Security Guard or Romulan guard 3.
Eden going to where she goes sucks. much of what i liked about this relaunch is poof gone. And now its back to squares edge in a confusin sort of way. But it was great that I could half understand all that at all really. I liked the ships half in normal space and half in a blob of blackneess that was the best part. Didnt like storing ppl in buffers. That has me irritated for many reasons. Should NOt be allowed.

I am happy Chako got to hook up with that chick, he wanted to get in her pants for a while. Alot of things happen really fast in this book. And i am really confused about the uncles and thier whole purpose and story. what q can know and doesnt know. I dont know the rules they are playing by in this one and it makes it hard to swallow.
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Old October 22 2012, 10:46 PM   #485
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Very glad to see the end of the Miral as a messiah storyline. I never quite bought that one. Excited that Janeway is alive. Can Data be next?
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Old October 23 2012, 06:56 AM   #486
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished it. Very well written. Good characterization and some touching moments. 7.5 out of 10 if I leave out the big fly in the ointment.

That fly is, of course, the return of Janeway. Sadly, it's a deal breaker for me. Trek is moving into comic book land in regards to death it appears. Why should we care if someone dies? Why should we care when 60 billion people die? It can all be undone with one snap of the fingers.

A few years ago I lost a large number of friends and family in a short span of months. A sister, three uncles, an aunt, two cousins and my best friend from high school. None of them are coming back. I know Trek is sci-fi but the sci stands for "science". It's not fantasy where you can raise the dead with a spell.

I know that Trek has brought back a number of people in the past. Both Scotty and McCoy died and were brought back in TOS. In those cases, resurrection was accomplished very shorty after there were pronounced dead and they were brought back by the same agents that caused their demise. The big game changer was, of course, Spock in TWOK. As far as science goes, it was laughable. To quote The Life of Brian "Where's the fetus going to gestate. Are you going to keep it in a box?" You you go from radiation scarred to rapidly aging yet normal younger version of yourself wile gestating in a hollow metal tube?

It seems that ever since then you can kill off pretty much anyone and bring them back with some handwaving or technobabble weeks or months or even years later.

Sadly, I won't be continuing VOY-R after this. If it had been a final farewell for Janeway to her crew, perhaps in a similar way that Q did for Picard in Tapestry it might have worked better except Janeway would not have returned it would have worked better for me.

To those who love Janeway and are glad she's back, enjoy! I wish I could join you but I just can't get into the whole "afterlife has a revolving door" that Trek has seemed to latch onto lately.

This essay on Tor.com says it much better than I could,

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/10/che...th-in-sff#more
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Old October 23 2012, 01:29 PM   #487
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
Just finished it. Very well written. Good characterization and some touching moments. 7.5 out of 10 if I leave out the big fly in the ointment.

That fly is, of course, the return of Janeway. Sadly, it's a deal breaker for me. Trek is moving into comic book land in regards to death it appears. Why should we care if someone dies? Why should we care when 60 billion people die? It can all be undone with one snap of the fingers.

A few years ago I lost a large number of friends and family in a short span of months. A sister, three uncles, an aunt, two cousins and my best friend from high school. None of them are coming back. I know Trek is sci-fi but the sci stands for "science". It's not fantasy where you can raise the dead with a spell.

I know that Trek has brought back a number of people in the past. Both Scotty and McCoy died and were brought back in TOS. In those cases, resurrection was accomplished very shorty after there were pronounced dead and they were brought back by the same agents that caused their demise. The big game changer was, of course, Spock in TWOK. As far as science goes, it was laughable. To quote The Life of Brian "Where's the fetus going to gestate. Are you going to keep it in a box?" You you go from radiation scarred to rapidly aging yet normal younger version of yourself wile gestating in a hollow metal tube?

It seems that ever since then you can kill off pretty much anyone and bring them back with some handwaving or technobabble weeks or months or even years later.

Sadly, I won't be continuing VOY-R after this. If it had been a final farewell for Janeway to her crew, perhaps in a similar way that Q did for Picard in Tapestry it might have worked better except Janeway would not have returned it would have worked better for me.

To those who love Janeway and are glad she's back, enjoy! I wish I could join you but I just can't get into the whole "afterlife has a revolving door" that Trek has seemed to latch onto lately.

This essay on Tor.com says it much better than I could,

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/10/che...th-in-sff#more
I do think that you are forgetting that Janeway "Died" but at that moment she was in the presence of the female Q, so she was never really gone... We have always know, at least from that moment on, I always knew she would not stay dead. So this is not a shock, it is part of the story that they have been weaving. And personally I have enjoyed the tale.
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Old October 23 2012, 04:37 PM   #488
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm forgetting nothing. Q is a cheat. The Q move Trek from sci-fi into fantasy.

Don't like the gravitational constant of the universe? <snap>
Want someone back from the dead? <snap>
What's to stop someone from having Q undo all the damage the Borg did in Destiny? Why is Janeway worth saving but 60 billion others are not?
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Old October 23 2012, 05:03 PM   #489
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
I'm forgetting nothing. Q is a cheat. The Q move Trek from sci-fi into fantasy.

Don't like the gravitational constant of the universe? <snap>
Want someone back from the dead? <snap>
What's to stop someone from having Q undo all the damage the Borg did in Destiny? Why is Janeway worth saving but 60 billion others are not?
Well Beyer definitely did not make it a "Snap" to bring her back. And If you read carefully, you will see the undercurrent of destiny that is guiding even the Q continuum, so the Q do not and should not just arbitrarily change things because the fabric of the multiverse will unraveling if they do. It was not just Janeway coming back for the heck of it, she had to be there, she had to "die" and she had to come back. It need to be her on that bridge with Eden and the Q at the end. No one else could have talked Q down from not letting Junior go with Eden. It was a very metaphysical and epic return. It makes for larger than life stories, the kind Trek has been doing for years.

Also, the greater good is served by the events of Destiny. Beyer does a great job of explaining that the events have happened for a reason. If Janeway does not disrupt the Borg in Endgame, then they do not come for the AQ sooner than they had planned and the Caeliar, the Titan and all the the pieces would not have been in the exact right place at the right time to stop the Borg and the Borg would have taken over the galaxy. So 60 Billion die, but the galaxy is free of slavery forever. High price yes, but better than the alternative. Also if Janeway had been "alive", Voyager would have never gone back into the Delta Quad with Eden as captain and the very person that was need to stop Omega would not have been in the right place with Junior to seal it forever. Destiny, it's a beautiful thing.
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Old October 24 2012, 01:04 PM   #490
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It still cheapens Janeway's death and it turns her into something of a messiah if she has to be there for every single event or else the universe won't turn out the way it's suppose too.

I dislike that it completely takes the fight and struggles of humanity out of the equation. If Janeway isn't there for certain events, we are all doomed... no matter what.
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Old October 24 2012, 01:39 PM   #491
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
It still cheapens Janeway's death and it turns her into something of a messiah if she has to be there for every single event or else the universe won't turn out the way it's suppose too.

I dislike that it completely takes the fight and struggles of humanity out of the equation. If Janeway isn't there for certain events, we are all doomed... no matter what.
To each his own. But makes it much more epic and fun for me. And I think Beyer shows there is plenty of fight, nothing easy about it, even if you are destined to be there
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Old October 24 2012, 02:24 PM   #492
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Why is Janeway's return from death not the stuff of science fiction? Do you not accept that David Mack's Caeliar were science fiction? You might not appreciate the "return from death" plot line, or like me hate the over use of "interesting and loved character death" as a plot line, but that doesn't mean Janeway's return isn't science fiction.

I'm not here to argue simple plot devices because it comes down to a matter of taste, but what makes up "science fiction" is pure speculation. It is all about world building and Star Trek is already in the division that uses "back from the dead plot lines," and they have been for years.

While I am sorry that you cannot appreciate "living" Janeway as much as a lot of us do, I am certainly very glad Kirsten Beyer brought her back and I think the way she did it is not only good science fiction, and good world building, but fits to standard Star Trek canon.
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Old October 24 2012, 04:09 PM   #493
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Brit wrote: View Post
Why is Janeway's return from death not the stuff of science fiction? Do you not accept that David Mack's Caeliar were science fiction? You might not appreciate the "return from death" plot line, or like me hate the over use of "interesting and loved character death" as a plot line, but that doesn't mean Janeway's return isn't science fiction.

I'm not here to argue simple plot devices because it comes down to a matter of taste, but what makes up "science fiction" is pure speculation. It is all about world building and Star Trek is already in the division that uses "back from the dead plot lines," and they have been for years.

While I am sorry that you cannot appreciate "living" Janeway as much as a lot of us do, I am certainly very glad Kirsten Beyer brought her back and I think the way she did it is not only good science fiction, and good world building, but fits to standard Star Trek canon.
Great Sci-fi has always been the stuff of myth as well. Using the great storytelling devices of the centuries to weave a compelling tale that also has something to teach us. Trek has always been about teaching us something and I believe that Beyer has a lot to say and to teach us about humanity, death, faith and destiny in her latest book. This makes Janeway's death and resurrection something worth exploring. It also makes it something that fits perfectly with exploring the universe in all it's many facets, new life and all that. So I completely agree with you Brit.
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Old October 24 2012, 04:54 PM   #494
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

But when you resurrect people over and over and over again it becomes silly. Then you add in the fact that now the universe somehow couldn't go on without Janeway it becomes even sillier.

I understand many people enjoy those things and that's cool. But it's something that I'm just not interested in. Kirsten Beyer writes a TOS, TNG, DS9 or ENT novel, I'm there because she's an incredibly talented writer. Hell, if she writes a VOY novel set during the TV series, I'm there with money in hand. But the course that the Voyager relaunch is on just doesn't interest me. It's no different than when people were refusing to buy books minus Janeway.
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Old October 25 2012, 01:20 AM   #495
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I don't understand people being upset about Janeway's resurrection, there was a pretty blantant set up for her return in the end of Before Dishonor. Now, I'll admit, I would have preferred to see her stay dead, but the door was pretty clearly left open for her to return.
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