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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old October 23 2012, 11:30 PM   #121
sojourner
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

larryman wrote: View Post


Sorry - my bad. I was thinking of two size-scale ships at the same time. I'll try again.

If the Enterprise saucer-section was no larger than the 'football' ship... then no pivot is needed. But if the saucer is scaled larger then the 'football' ship... then pivot is needed to prevent the saucer's leading and trailing portions from extending into, and being destroyed, in the 'close' warp zones ahead and behind the warp-ring.

The 'saucer shape' is what the Enterprise uses as it's primary hull shape. And it might be desired/required to disconnect from the warp-ring, and land the ship (proper) on a planet. Perhaps as a colony base station.
OK, I'll try again as well. Why does it need to pivot? Just build it in the orientation that it needs to begin with. Why a saucer shape? Why not just build it in a more efficient shape to begin with?
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Old October 24 2012, 12:52 PM   #122
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

sojourner wrote: View Post
larryman wrote: View Post


Sorry - my bad. I was thinking of two size-scale ships at the same time. I'll try again.

If the Enterprise saucer-section was no larger than the 'football' ship... then no pivot is needed. But if the saucer is scaled larger then the 'football' ship... then pivot is needed to prevent the saucer's leading and trailing portions from extending into, and being destroyed, in the 'close' warp zones ahead and behind the warp-ring.

The 'saucer shape' is what the Enterprise uses as it's primary hull shape. And it might be desired/required to disconnect from the warp-ring, and land the ship (proper) on a planet. Perhaps as a colony base station.
OK, I'll try again as well. Why does it need to pivot? Just build it in the orientation that it needs to begin with. Why a saucer shape? Why not just build it in a more efficient shape to begin with?
I guess there is no 'good' reason to not build the ship in it's most efficient shape - a football ellipsoid.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:26 PM   #123
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

larryman wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
larryman wrote: View Post


Sorry - my bad. I was thinking of two size-scale ships at the same time. I'll try again.

If the Enterprise saucer-section was no larger than the 'football' ship... then no pivot is needed. But if the saucer is scaled larger then the 'football' ship... then pivot is needed to prevent the saucer's leading and trailing portions from extending into, and being destroyed, in the 'close' warp zones ahead and behind the warp-ring.

The 'saucer shape' is what the Enterprise uses as it's primary hull shape. And it might be desired/required to disconnect from the warp-ring, and land the ship (proper) on a planet. Perhaps as a colony base station.
OK, I'll try again as well. Why does it need to pivot? Just build it in the orientation that it needs to begin with. Why a saucer shape? Why not just build it in a more efficient shape to begin with?
I guess there is no 'good' reason to not build the ship in it's most efficient shape - a football ellipsoid.
'Most efficient shape' according to our nascent understanding of warp fields. There's a bit of wiggle room left between now and when all future papers have been written and we're actually ready to build the thing. Also, form typically follows function, and while the form of a football might easily fulfill the function of moving at the speed of light, what the vehicle does once it gets to its destination will also have an influence on its form. Does it launch smaller craft? Does it maneuver at slower-than-light speeds? Does it set up a defensive perimeter? The efficiency of travelling faster-than-light might be a secondary concern and thus a secondary influence on the vehicle's form.

And there is another good reason to come up with other shapes ... to make them aesthetically pleasing. If you're making a new TV show or building a CG model or painting a picture, the last thing you want as the center piece of your creative endeavor is that bland, boring monstrosity pictured on the original article.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:37 PM   #124
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

It's only bland and boring because it lacks detail. The overall shape of it could be quite intriguing as the basis for a starship design.

Technically, the Enterprise is just 3 cylinders and a platter. It doesn't become our favorite design until fully drawn out.

Damn, now you have me thinking about the design. I'm tempted to try developing it in Sketchup.
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Old October 24 2012, 07:07 PM   #125
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

sojourner wrote: View Post
...

Damn, now you have me thinking about the design. I'm tempted to try developing it in Sketchup.
I'd be tempted to shout, "Race ya!" but I have too much on my plate already and no time at all for anything 3D related. I can barely find time to make snarky remarks about other peoples' posts.

But by all means, go for it!
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Old October 27 2012, 07:12 PM   #126
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

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Why would you remove the exotic matter?
It might not be good to be that close to exotic matter--it might be toxic.
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Old October 27 2012, 07:37 PM   #127
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

But why would you remove it from the "engine"? If you're spending the money to build an interstellar space craft you're not going to convert the most expensive part into housing at the other end of the trip.
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Old October 27 2012, 07:49 PM   #128
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The idea is that the ring station is left behind, you come home in a more compact vehicle-at least that is how I would do it
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Old October 27 2012, 07:55 PM   #129
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

But the "ring station" is/was your FTL engine. How do you "come back in a more compact vehicle" without the ftl drive?
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Old October 27 2012, 08:07 PM   #130
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Imagine a two stage vehicle, one with a large ring, one with a smaller one that can expand and perhaps use unspent exotic matter, assuming it dimishes in mass in the trip. I would think that something has to be given up. Now maybe I'm thinking too much about rocketry to assuming what FTL engineering is like--but I would think there would have to be a trade off. The key is that you want to build a base, and perhaps leave exotic matter in the football and live in the ring if you are left behind--then have some form of entanglement.

Imagine this. A two stage ring ship heads out, one ring remains. The exotic matter is reconfigured to the center of the ring station for another purpose--perhaps teleportation. If that doesn't work, return on the ring ship pod.

I don't know why I think this, but I think there is going to be some type of articulated design in warp drives in some sense. Just a hunch mind you.
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Old October 27 2012, 08:54 PM   #131
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

So, you've somehow twisted a hypothetical FTL engine into some kind of wet stage station like Skylab was once proposed as? That's not a hunch. That's wish fulfillment using a very large shoehorn.
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Old November 10 2012, 09:53 PM   #132
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I don't know about that. Now maybe exotic energy isn't harmful, who Knows?

As far as the guy who wanted a real enterprise in space--this was as good as it ever got...almost?
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=17306
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Old November 29 2012, 09:26 PM   #133
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Here's an Atlantic article on a radiation burst problem that occurs when a ship drops out of warp. The physics paper is here.

They examined particle velocities and how those particles would transit the warp field, and some particles remain along for the ride, gathering energy during the entire flight and releasing it in a burst. The obvious solution I see is to slightly modulate the warp field so the particles don't remain in a stable position indefinitely. Lt. Cdr Data or Jordi probably did that all the time.
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Old November 29 2012, 11:02 PM   #134
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

So that's what gamma ray bursts are!
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Old November 30 2012, 12:33 AM   #135
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I saw a suggestion that we start looking for such bursts, which would simultaneously confirm the existence of intelligent alien life and the feasibility of a warp drive.
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