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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old October 23 2012, 11:35 PM   #76
Robert Comsol
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Location: USS Berlin
Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Back to the original topic, if nobody minds (thanks to Peter's excellent proposal I can now enjoy TOS-R "Court-Martial" and watch these guys replacing a running light. Thanx!).

In his interview with Doug Drexler for the 70's posterbooks Matt Jefferies was very clear that in designing the ship (and the interiors) he was aiming for what he called the "Hornblower Effect" and therefore a distinctive (ancient) maritime touch.

Indeed, in the old sailing vessels cargo was stored at the bottom of the ship and therefore it is feasible that the bottom hatches do serve such a purpose. My favorite "Hornblower Effect" is the spherical antimatter container ("Obsession") which looks like an ancient canonball which - essentially - is what a photon torpedo is used for.

I should also add that I no longer believe the yellow circle is a cylinder with probe launching capabilities. One of my friends gave me a lecture why to have a 360° launching cylinder that launches probes but does not launch photon torpedos.
Instead the probes should be launched from the same launcher as the photon torpedos at the underside of the saucer. At least this could explain, why the phaser control room has the same height as the engine room: Behind the separating wall there are racks with all the various and mission specific probes.

Bob
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Old October 24 2012, 01:27 AM   #77
Albertese
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Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

...

At least this could explain, why the phaser control room has the same height as the engine room: Behind the separating wall there are racks with all the various and mission specific probes.

Bob
I've thought this for years. It's actually taking up quite a bit of space on the saucer. It's kind of a pain in the butt, but I'm working with it for now...

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Old October 24 2012, 01:52 AM   #78
mickemoose
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Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

It would seem there would have to be some sort of ejection hatch in the vicinity of the matter/antimatter reaction chamber.

In "That Which Survives," after Scotty is helped into the service crawlway which leads to the matter/antimatter reaction chamber, he tells Spock over the communicator, "I've sealed off the aft end of the crawl way, and I've positioned explosive separator charges to blast me clear if I rupture the magnetic bottle."

Scotty also explains, "If the magnetic flow jumps, you must jettison me."

Well, if Scotty was ejected from the ship, his red-shirted, Scottish body would have to exit through some opening to the cold vacuum of outer space.

Where would that ejection hatch be? It all depends on where you believe main engineering and the matter/antimatter reaction chamber is located. Everyone has their own opinion on this one.
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Old October 24 2012, 07:28 AM   #79
blssdwlf
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Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Timo wrote: View Post
We can see the cavity - it isn't a mushroom shape.
We can see the cavity of indefinite depth, which perfectly allows for a mushroom shape.
TOS-R has a pretty good close-up of the cavity. It's not deep at all. And it doesn't look like it is meant to hold a mushroom shape.



Timo wrote: View Post
Anyway, why would there be a cavity in the first place if the dome didn't have a stem? Any hatch should be flush with the outer hull, surely, if what was ejected was just a dome terminating at said hull.
Light bulbs plug into a cavity so why not? The light bulb could've exploded and left a charred cavity.

Timo wrote: View Post
"Optimal" thrust is required since the pod put the ship in danger.
Naah. The pod is to be ejected using a single burst of thrust. There's no reason to optimize performance, when there are more important things to consider, such as reliability and safety. Generous overkill plus angling of thrust is the way to go.
When something is a danger to the ship, you want to optimize performance to get it away from it asap

In anycase, TOS-R's own visuals show a very shallow looking replacement part. Hardly long enough to have someone get inside and take readings. That and the lack of dialogue or visual flashback to it being jettisoned makes it look like a light bulb got destroyed as part of the considerable damage, IMO.

@Robert Comsol - good point about the 360 launcher. If it could launch probes then torpedoes would be a given.

If those markings on the belly of the engineering hull are just for orientation then we don't have to worry about there being removable panels or hatches there. Hmmm....
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Old October 24 2012, 08:57 AM   #80
Timo
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Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Indeed, in the old sailing vessels cargo was stored at the bottom of the ship and therefore it is feasible that the bottom hatches do serve such a purpose.
This gives rise to a rather comical vision ... Why would any of Hornblower's ships have hatches in the bottom?

We all know what "naval" cargo holds are supposed to look like: they have hatches on top. Perhaps with some sort of cranes adjacent.

But turning everything upside down is certainly a valid way to put a fresh sci-fi touch on familiar things.

I've thought this for years. It's actually taking up quite a bit of space on the saucer.
If we think beyond the concept of TPTB just using a randomly available set, the obvious analogy here would be the gun turrets of WWII. Quite a bit of vertical structure there, even if mainly for connecting a necessarily topside feature (the gun) with a necessarily deep down feature (the magazines). A two-store set would provide some of that feel, while use of partitions would help with the also desired crampedness.

Could we bow to that analogy a bit deeper, perhaps? In STXI, crewmen are shown loading smallish cylinders into revolver-like magazines that are extremely unlikely to be torpedo tubes. In DS9, the phasers of the Defiant rely on consumable components of about the same shape and size. What if phasers in the TOS era also consumed a physical resource not unlike a gunshell - perhaps not with each shot, but certainly often enough that there would be a need to involve pairs of hands ready for a reload, and an officer with his hand hovering on an abort button in each firing in case there's a jam.

We could then attribute the height of the facility to it being immediately adjacent to a phaser turret and stockpiling the necessary consumables for the weapon. Small objects, to be sure, but lots of them, and in need of being moved vertically to the weapon above or below, considering how the saucer weapons are positioned.

The other way to use the analogy is to remember that the turret interiors in WWII were dictated by the need of the weapon to move in a specific way (that is, rotate, and have the barrel tilt). We have plenty of reason to believe in retractable phaser turrets in TOS; the vertical space could be for a part of the turret that will come swinging down at retraction, while all the "BoT" action naturally takes place when the turret is extended.

As for the bottom markings, while it would be appealing to consider them mere decoration, they also happen to be the markings that have the best evidence for being something else.

- They are shaped reasonably for something that might open or be jettisoned
- They aren't similar to markings that we know are unrelated to hatches (the thin red lines of the saucer and nacelles)
- Some of them are similar to markings very likely to be hatches (the yellow rectangles of the saucer)
- One of them is actually seen opening in TOS-R
- This part of the hull has known uses for hatches
- Other Trek incarnations have starships with hatches at these very locations

Timo Saloniemi
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Old October 24 2012, 01:54 PM   #81
blssdwlf
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Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Albertese wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

...

At least this could explain, why the phaser control room has the same height as the engine room: Behind the separating wall there are racks with all the various and mission specific probes.

Bob
I've thought this for years. It's actually taking up quite a bit of space on the saucer. It's kind of a pain in the butt, but I'm working with it for now...
I've been able to fit three of those rooms into the primary hull roughly between where the phasers are on the dorsal and ventral of the saucer. The two giant vertical columns in the room could be the power feeds to the upper and lower phasers for each room. Alternatively, the forward room might be extra large because adjacent to it is the automated photon torpedo launchers in the ventral part of the ship...

But yeah, they do take up a lot of space.
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Old October 24 2012, 02:05 PM   #82
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: exterior surface markings of Kirk's Enterprise

Which I guess is a good thing, as the sum total of the other sets doesn't necessarily add up to much. We would do well to speculate on extensive engineering and shuttle handling facilities beyond those established, to fill in the secondary hull - and mission-related facilities like these in the primary hull as well.

Of course, ST:TMP shows and TOS already hints that recreation is another "mission" to which lots of space is devoted. But the three-deck recreation room indicated in both could be what takes up the aft sectors of the saucer (a bit off to one side, or perhaps both, if we take your neat idea for how Impulse Engineering is arranged) where these weapons-related facilities control the forward sectors. Crew cabins and the like would justly be squeezed in the cracks...

Timo Saloniemi
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