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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old October 23 2012, 05:36 AM   #106
sojourner
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The Castellan wrote: View Post
wow, you really, really got something against the idea of life out there, and being more advanced than us, don't you?
Out there? Nope. I don't have anything against life "out there". I actually think it's a certainty there is somewhere.

I have problems with claims that alien life has come here to earth. As the saying goes, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Proof is not "I don't know how ancient man built the pyramids - therefore aliens!". That's just shortchanging the capabilities of our ancestors.
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Old October 23 2012, 06:45 AM   #107
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Hold it, PAL. Your entire post is negated when you did the paranormal investigator response. Just because someone studies the stuff the mainstream won't touch does not make that person stupid or a kook.
Never claimed it did. I meant exactly what I wrote: that the only relevant piece of information in your post was you identifying yourself as a paranormal investigator. The entire rest of that post was you attempting to JUSTIFY your paranormal interests in light of the attacks you expect to receive.

Considering this is a science and technology forum, this is a bit like going to a Christian message board and announcing "I am a Secular-Humanist." You could go on to write another 600 words describing your religious beliefs, but they wouldn't reveal anything that wasn't made extremely clear in those first four words.

And I won't take seriously an organization like NASA first because they can't even convert metric to English, which is too stupid to be stupid, and the fact we've done nothing but go in low earth orbit for 30 years
Really? What have YOU accomplished in space for the last 30 years?

and the fact we got the Brookings Report saying we'll all go crazy and kill each other if we find alien life or evidence of it....not what I'd call them having done better research...
Since the Brookings Report doesn't actually say that, that sort of illustrates my point about research quality.

from past experience, when someone outside the mainstream puts up evidence that can hold up in a court of law, the mainstreamers and naysayers will shout 'tinfoil hat, conspiracy theorist! LOL!"
Actually what they say is "We find the defendant not-guilty," since that's usually the kind of evidence that's presented in a court of law.

Please bear in mind, science-themed message boards are NOT courts of law, and neither are pop-sci magazines. Paranomal Investigators get the reputation they have BECAUSE they are constantly claiming to be derided and/or threatened and marginalized by mainstream science.

From MY personal experience, they are NOT derided or marginalized, they are simply IGNORED, because no one in the mainstream thinks they know what they're talking about. You should also bear in mind that this is something paranormal investigators have in common with about 90% of mainstream scientists. Theoretical science IN GENERAL is a pretty cutthroat affair.

so I can put up reams of actual data and documents till you are blue in the face...
Out of genuine curiosity: would any of that be original research? Or would that be hyperlinks to paranomal websites you personally find credible?

And with regards to the stuff like the ancient aliens theory, our ancestors were not stupid, they simply had not the words to describe what they saw
And you never once considered the possibility that they DID have the words and described it exactly as they saw it?

used words like metal bird, metal dragon, flying shield, etc.
Exactly. Why, to you, is a "spaceship" a more likely explanation than any of those things? Especially considering the writings themselves may have been intentional fabrications? (The concept of "fiction" was known to ancient peoples too, methinks; entertainment CERTAINLY was).

I mean, hell, even a metal dragon -- or a heavily armored one -- hints at a recently-extinct reptile species. Aliens, not so much.

And for the paranormal investigator 'title', what you want me to call myself
A paranormal investigator.

Because anything else would be just confusing.
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Old October 23 2012, 08:05 AM   #108
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The Castellan's great. Can we keep him?
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Old October 23 2012, 01:04 PM   #109
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

sojourner wrote: View Post
larryman wrote: View Post
I don't think you can stretch the ring into a cylinder shape. They seem to have gained great functionality by making the ring a "rounded donut" shape. Stretching it would probably return it to requiring 'planet Jupiter mass' energy requirements. I would think that multiple donut rings in series would also.

I think best to just use the saucer-section. Scaled to the max diameter of the football (in proportion to the warp ring), and mount it on a pivot axis to the ring. Then, with the saucer perpendicular to the ring... it's impulse engines can be used to achieve initial sub-light velocity. Then pivot the saucer to parallel with the ring, and engage the warp drive. When slowing to stop... do the reverse procedure.
A. Why pivot it at all?
B. Why use a saucer shape to begin with?

Sorry - my bad. I was thinking of two size-scale ships at the same time. I'll try again.

If the Enterprise saucer-section was no larger than the 'football' ship... then no pivot is needed. But if the saucer is scaled larger then the 'football' ship... then pivot is needed to prevent the saucer's leading and trailing portions from extending into, and being destroyed, in the 'close' warp zones ahead and behind the warp-ring.

The 'saucer shape' is what the Enterprise uses as it's primary hull shape. And it might be desired/required to disconnect from the warp-ring, and land the ship (proper) on a planet. Perhaps as a colony base station.

Last edited by larryman; October 23 2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old October 23 2012, 01:40 PM   #110
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
The Castellan's great. Can we keep him?
Throw him into the physicists' den. They will eat anything.
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Old October 23 2012, 05:37 PM   #111
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Castellan, how about some citations for these claims you are making?

The "water erosion of the Sphinx" one, for instance, I know is false. Of course, I would be willing to entertain credible evidence to the contrary, if you have any.
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Old October 23 2012, 07:02 PM   #112
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The Castellan wrote: View Post
And I won't take seriously an organization like NASA first because they can't even convert metric to English
Okay, that was back in 1999 (Mars Climate Orbiter). You do realize that people *learn* from their mistakes, right? Two independent teams used two different systems of measurement, and NASA has taken careful steps since then so something like that never happens again.

Hell, it's even mentioned in Brookings that scientists and engineers would be the ones to really freak out....and given the egos and arrogance, which is probably higher than those of rock stars and pro athletes, I can easily see that.
You don't know many actual scientists and engineers, do you? (Says the aerospace engineer.)
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Old October 23 2012, 07:43 PM   #113
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Not to mention the Imperial/Metric problem was from the contacting company who built the Rover and NASA simply didn't know they had had programed it with Imperial units rather than Metric. I'm sure, had they known and all been aware, they could have done the necessary conversions.
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Old October 23 2012, 07:46 PM   #114
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

B.J. wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
Hell, it's even mentioned in Brookings that scientists and engineers would be the ones to really freak out....and given the egos and arrogance, which is probably higher than those of rock stars and pro athletes, I can easily see that.
You don't know many actual scientists and engineers, do you? (Says the aerospace engineer.)
The astrophysicist agrees.
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Old October 23 2012, 08:08 PM   #115
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
B.J. wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
Hell, it's even mentioned in Brookings that scientists and engineers would be the ones to really freak out....and given the egos and arrogance, which is probably higher than those of rock stars and pro athletes, I can easily see that.
You don't know many actual scientists and engineers, do you? (Says the aerospace engineer.)
The astrophysicist agrees.
I wonder what it is he is characterizing as "arrogance," anyway. Could it be that he posits his wild speculations, they tell him he's "wrong," and so he simply concludes they are arrogant?

To me, this is probably one of the worst aspects of the Internet: that complete hogwash can be listed in search results alongside credible scientific research, and that fact leads certain people to conclude that facts are a matter of opinion, and you just get to choose which facts you accept as true--and then they are the truth.

I understand the conspiracist's worldview. It's comforting to believe you've got it all figured out. It's the same sense of satisfaction people get from religious belief. You "know the truth," and the others are just blind. It's okay that they don't believe you, because you will be proven right in the end. And anything that comes along to challenge this worldview, you can quickly assimilate or reject without questioning any of your underlying suppositions. You build this internally consistent house of cards out of cherry-picked data and anecdotes, and it all makes sense, because you've tossed out everything that contradicts it.

To me, it seems a lot like a mental illness.
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Old October 23 2012, 09:08 PM   #116
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

What it is, is intellectual laziness. I didn't do physics/maths/engineering at university but I don't need to because I can learn more watching YouTube and websites which confirm what I've already decided to believe.
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Old October 23 2012, 09:19 PM   #117
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

You are exactly right. Intellectual laziness is what enables that sort of mindset to take hold and endure. It's easier than living with uncertainty and having to learn things, after all.
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Old October 23 2012, 10:14 PM   #118
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I didn't know Chinese, but I've just watched Shaolin Soccer and now I can speak Mandarin, Cantonese, I know at least five styles of kung fu and I can cook some kick-ass mantou.
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Old October 23 2012, 11:23 PM   #119
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I didn't go after my doctorate, but I still think I can keep my posts on topic.




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Old October 23 2012, 11:25 PM   #120
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Staying on topic is for arrogant, egocentric, close-minded priests in labcoats!
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