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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old October 22 2012, 08:16 PM   #91
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I really don't think time is the problem as far as human ingenuity is concerned. In the long run, if they want to travel to another star, they will work out how to get humans to survive hundreds of years in the void. This is intellectually easy but realistically has so many problems embedded in it that in two thousand years I expect we will be just as stuck in this solar system as we are now. By that time, we will be on other planets, though.
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Old October 22 2012, 08:32 PM   #92
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I don't think you can stretch the ring into a cylinder shape. They seem to have gained great functionality by making the ring a "rounded donut" shape. Stretching it would probably return it to requiring 'planet Jupiter mass' energy requirements. I would think that multiple donut rings in series would also.

I think best to just use the saucer-section. Scaled to the max diameter of the football (in proportion to the warp ring), and mount it on a pivot axis to the ring. Then, with the saucer perpendicular to the ring... it's impulse engines can be used to achieve initial sub-light velocity. Then pivot the saucer to parallel with the ring, and engage the warp drive. When slowing to stop... do the reverse procedure.
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Old October 22 2012, 08:40 PM   #93
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

I love the way this thread is half Trek tech and half realism without any friction between the two.
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Old October 22 2012, 08:42 PM   #94
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Maybe the Zero point energy field is sub space. If so would quantum entanglement aid in sub space communication?
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Old October 22 2012, 09:15 PM   #95
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

larryman wrote: View Post
I don't think you can stretch the ring into a cylinder shape. They seem to have gained great functionality by making the ring a "rounded donut" shape. Stretching it would probably return it to requiring 'planet Jupiter mass' energy requirements. I would think that multiple donut rings in series would also.

I think best to just use the saucer-section. Scaled to the max diameter of the football (in proportion to the warp ring), and mount it on a pivot axis to the ring. Then, with the saucer perpendicular to the ring... it's impulse engines can be used to achieve initial sub-light velocity. Then pivot the saucer to parallel with the ring, and engage the warp drive. When slowing to stop... do the reverse procedure.
A. Why pivot it at all?
B. Why use a saucer shape to begin with?
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Old October 22 2012, 09:19 PM   #96
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

John Mason wrote: View Post
Maybe the Zero point energy field is sub space. If so would quantum entanglement aid in sub space communication?
To me, this is tantamount to asking whether we can power spaceships with unicorns and pixie dust.

"Zero point energy" - Not known to exist or be possible.
"Sub space" - Not known to exist.
"Quantum entanglement" - Exists but we don't fully understand its implications.
"Sub space communication" - Like "sub space," this is not known to exist or be possible.

It is hard to speculate how well some imaginary technique would work at some task without at least a little concrete science to back it up.
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Old October 23 2012, 12:20 AM   #97
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

What do you know about this?
http://redshift.vif.com/BookBlurbs/PushingGravity.htm
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...l-or-imaginary

Woo-woo or not?

Now a ringship cannot have a long stem out front--I don't thing the geometry allos for that.

So a Warp ship will look like a very simple ringed space station, with the outer ring perhaps doubling for a crew compartment once the exotic matter is removed?
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Old October 23 2012, 12:34 AM   #98
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Why would you remove the exotic matter?
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Old October 23 2012, 12:37 AM   #99
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

would it be possible to warp the space within a wormhole?
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Old October 23 2012, 01:04 AM   #100
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
I really don't think you appreciate the distances involved.
I am going to say this once, since all this will get is either tinfoil hat jokes or cheesy pictures with infantile captions for some cheap lol factor.

I am a paranormal investigator, I have witnessed many amazing objects in the sky that the conventional explanations can not satisfy (in fact a good 5 to 10 percent of the UFO's in the many released documents from many countries, except America, as usual , which is a large amount in the tens of thousands of cases when you think about it), and with the discovery of more and more stars with planet around them, as well as the fact that our own solar system is very much brand new, those other worlds can have civilizations out there millions, if not billions of years ahead of us, making our state of the art technology look like prehistoric junk. And what's not to say that faster than light interstellar travel is not possible? Just because we can't do it, does not mean another species out there can't. That's like the height of human arrogance right there, that we, supposedly, are the highest, most intelligent forms of life out there. Those objects reported, and many I have seen myself, are moving in ways already breaking physics as we know it, and I could see them covering vast distances like we would be hoping in a car or jet and going to another state or county. And science is about more learning, and the willingness to throw away what was once considered the answer with a new one, and being open minded to these things, without acting like some spoiled brat or arrogant prick.......or saying whatever the guy paying them wants.....since, unfortunately, politics and money follows science on its coattails anywhere it goes. This is my own hunch, but I think both faster than light travel and discovering alien life will devastate a good chunk of mainstream scientists because that would mean what they were preaching would be wrong and the guys they views as "The gods of science, and don't mess with them!" would actually become just normal guys again. And they themselves would no longer be considered top masters of nature. Hell, it's even mentioned in Brookings that scientists and engineers would be the ones to really freak out....and given the egos and arrogance, which is probably higher than those of rock stars and pro athletes, I can easily see that.

Heck, just a few centuries ago, this was considered the mainstream, "true" ways of thinking, including science:
1: The Earth is flat.
2: Man can not fly.
3: Man can not go faster than sound.
4: Man will never reach the moon.

Tack on "We are alone in the universe" and "We can not move faster than light" to that list.

Studying history, I often find three stages in any sort of major change, be in science or political, that happen.
1: Denial
2: Aggressive hostility towards it
3: Acceptance

And talking to some of my friends in the Hopi and Zuni communities, as well as in India, it's only a matter of time before interesting things begin to happen.



I'm done, now, since I am sure I gave some of you some amusement and material for your cheesy caption pictures.
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Old October 23 2012, 01:24 AM   #101
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

And this is where you don't understand science. Most Scientists, when confronted with irrefutable proof of something, will merely go to their (metaphorical) chalkboards, cross off the work on the problem at hand, and start over on a new problem. Until that point, they remain skeptical.

Science requires verifiable and repeatable proof. Not "I saw something I can't explain".

To use your example against you, at one point in human history every light seen in the night sky was attributed to the supernatural. Science, in the short time that humans have come, has wittled that down to only %5 to %10 of the unexplained remaining that way. Not too bad. Give it another hundred years or so and see what that percentage is down to. Without "aliens" or "sky gods" showing up on the Whitehouse lawn.
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Old October 23 2012, 03:05 AM   #102
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

wow, you really, really got something against the idea of life out there, and being more advanced than us, don't you? Something tells me you'd be thrilled as hell if we are, however unlikely, in fact alone out here.

And as I said, that 5-10 percent represents a large number of what ca not be explained.....weather balloons, meteors, swamp gas, military projects, and so on.......and what is left, however improbable, least to the close minded, has to be the answer. And, the folks who say show me the proof what's out there....I got a few questions.....what proof will it requite, how much of it, and also, I ask you to prove to me there is nothing out there, which can not be done any more than me proving to you there is something. Like with the megalithic structures from ancient times and the mainstreamers getting angry when even suggestions the idea the ancients were helped, especially considering the actual process of cutting huge pieces of dense, hard stone like durrite, which you need a diamond to cut it with (and not diamonds in those regions many times), and then carry it across some really harsh terrain with hills, valleys, and water...and then to lift them up and fit them into position with precision, without the aid of modern techology, and in a fast time (to build the great pyramid in the time they said it took, you'd need to move one block into position every 9 to 10 seconds) Give me real proof they did that.....same with the SPhinx, it's at least twice as old, but the mainstreamers say no, but won't offer proof themselves, despite the fact there's water erosion on it. I say the same for both alien life and FTL travel, gimme proof they don't exist. The mainstream folks need to realize they gotta do it as well. And given that so many people today (especially in non english speaking countries....you talk to the Hindus of alien life and we being visited, they go "Yep, and not tell me something I don't know") believe in ET life and that we been visited, both now and long ago, and openly talking about it, and government trust at an all time low, maybe there's something to it, yes?

And the idea of them being on the whitehouse lawn is just as arrogant as saying there's nothing out there. Thing is that politics and greed pretty much is what says what advances we make, be it propulsion, energy (you really think big oil will go, "So, you found a new, better energy source than us?! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! We shall proudly step down and and move aside so we can begin a new era of clean, better energy! Doubt it. Same with Mon Santo, a company infamous for its actions, and the president hired one of its top dogs to be on the FDA, in the height of times where Europe has made strict labeling laws for GMO food, as well as banning it in some countries, and with a majority of Americans demanding similar label laws....it's not a coincidence that nothing has been done, so far, and the mon santo guy being put on the FDA.....that's like hiring the drug lords to be in the government to fight the silly and pointless war on drugs.....money and power talk, not people's wants and needs these days), medicine, and all that. Just look at the mess of the world we are in, and they can be solved with technology, used right, but politics and greed gets in the way. I mean look at Tesla, he was on the verge of free, clean, and safe energy, but JP Morgan and Thomas Edison (Edison was a business man first and an inventor, second) pretty much did everything possible to destroy both Telsa and us being free from the energy trap we are in, today. If not for politics and greed, we'd be probably another century ahead in technology right now. If you think I am crazy, Eisenhower warned us about all this after he left office, plus as much as I hated Reagen, he did say one thing I agree with, and there was 'The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' And if you got scientists working for the government, they are not going to do what's right, they are going to do what they are ordered to do, mainly because even though they might be smart cookies, they don't wanna risk their paychecks, pensions and maybe their own safety in trying to do the right thing. Same if they work for a big corporation. Of course they are gonna say what the bosses want.

All I am saying here is that just because someone with a title or a position in authority says something, it is not necessarily true. Even guys like Einstein himself spoke about stuff like that, hell, he came from a government infamous for that.
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Old October 23 2012, 04:26 AM   #103
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

throwback wrote: View Post
Two thousand years ago, a writer envisioned a trip to the Moon...
And people thought the same thing when a writer envisioned that same trip 100 years ago.

I think that space travel to the nearest stars may be a series of leaps, like what the Polynesians did when exploring the Pacific.
That works for planets just fine... but not stars. That's a category error you're making: the polynesians never managed to explore the moon, for example.
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Old October 23 2012, 04:28 AM   #104
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
I really don't think you appreciate the distances involved.
I am going to say this once, since all this will get is either tinfoil hat jokes or cheesy pictures with infantile captions for some cheap lol factor.

I am a paranormal investigator.
That pretty much sums up your entire post.

The Castellan wrote: View Post
wow, you really, really got something against the idea of life out there, and being more advanced than us, don't you?
it's not "life out there" that people are questioning. It's "aliens have/are visiting the Earth" that people are questioning. Those are two COMPLETELY different premises that have almost nothing to do with each other.

All I am saying here is that just because someone with a title or a position in authority says something, it is not necessarily true.
Everyone knows that already. The problem is you continually fail to apply this same standard to yourself: just because YOU have the title of "Paranormal Investigator" doesn't mean your theories are any more valid than those of mainstream scientists. However, what sticks in the minds of a lot of people is that you appear to be positioning yourself in direct opposition to people who have done better quality research than you, who have spent more time studying the subject than you, who organize and support their data better than you, and by all other accounts they appear to be smarter than you.

Perhaps that's unfair to you, or perhaps it's just unfortunate. Perhaps it merely obscures the fact that you, the non-expert, have noticed something obvious that the experts have somehow missed. But science doesn't have a handicapped parking space; if you have a fundamental disadvantage, then you DO have to work that much harder to provide hard evidence for your claims. Continuing to whine about how nobody takes you seriously is simply a waste of energy.
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Last edited by Crazy Eddie; October 23 2012 at 04:39 AM.
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Old October 23 2012, 05:04 AM   #105
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Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
I really don't think you appreciate the distances involved.
I am going to say this once, since all this will get is either tinfoil hat jokes or cheesy pictures with infantile captions for some cheap lol factor.

I am a paranormal investigator.
That pretty much sums up your entire post.

The Castellan wrote: View Post
wow, you really, really got something against the idea of life out there, and being more advanced than us, don't you?
it's not "life out there" that people are questioning. It's "aliens have/are visiting the Earth" that people are questioning. Those are two COMPLETELY different premises that have almost nothing to do with each other.

All I am saying here is that just because someone with a title or a position in authority says something, it is not necessarily true.
Everyone knows that already. The problem is you continually fail to apply this same standard to yourself: just because YOU have the title of "Paranormal Investigator" doesn't mean your theories are any more valid than those of mainstream scientists. However, what sticks in the minds of a lot of people is that you appear to be positioning yourself in direct opposition to people who have done better quality research than you, who have spent more time studying the subject than you, who organize and support their data better than you, and by all other accounts they appear to be smarter than you.

Perhaps that's unfair to you, or perhaps it's just unfortunate. Perhaps it merely obscures the fact that you, the non-expert, have noticed something obvious that the experts have somehow missed. But science doesn't have a handicapped parking space; if you have a fundamental disadvantage, then you DO have to work that much harder to provide hard evidence for your claims. Continuing to whine about how nobody takes you seriously is simply a waste of energy.
Hold it, PAL. Your entire post is negated when you did the paranormal investigator response. Just because someone studies the stuff the mainstream won't touch does not make that person stupid or a kook. And given that many of us are being listened to via alternative media in radio, books, television, internet, etc, we seem to be taken seriously, just not by some, is all......we're now in an era where CNN and FOX are not your sole sources of information, anymore. And I won't take seriously an organization like NASA first because they can't even convert metric to English, which is too stupid to be stupid, and the fact we've done nothing but go in low earth orbit for 30 years (that's not exploring space in my book...plus the Curiosity landing made huge news because it's the first thing since the moon landing in the space programs that actually did something new and exciting in the past 3 decades, though we need more ,especially since robots don't make good role models for future generations, and let's face it, role models are an endangered species these days) and the fact we got the Brookings Report saying we'll all go crazy and kill each other if we find alien life or evidence of it....not what I'd call them having done better research....oh, and from past experience, when someone outside the mainstream puts up evidence that can hold up in a court of law, the mainstreamers and naysayers will shout 'tinfoil hat, conspiracy theorist! LOL!" (but then again, seeing how people are supposed to be expected to behave in post 9-11 America, where you do what you're told and shut up, the name callers are not often the sharpest knife to begin with), even, like I said, when the evidence/proof is up.....so I can put up reams of actual data and documents till you are blue in the face, but, dealing with this before....most are unwilling to read anything more than a few paragraphs long (unless it's something littered with innuendo and toilet humor), and some people to even try. And even guys like Buzz Aldren, who were there, are talking about this stuff, now.

And with regards to the stuff like the ancient aliens theory, our ancestors were not stupid, they simply had not the words to describe what they saw (they did not have 'space ship' or 'rocket' or 'alien' back then) and used words like metal bird, metal dragon, flying shield, etc. I find it ironic that so many cultures that date back to ancient days are more willing to discuss this topic than NASA, government, and apparently some fans/nerds of a certain sci-fi series. Double that since they also seemed to have scientific/mathematical/astronomical knowledge long before western culture had, and seemed to have more knowledge than even what would be considered today's educated man.

And for the paranormal investigator 'title', what you want me to call myself, and no, "tinfoil hat wearing, conspiracy theorist, lolz!" is not going to be that, either, thank you.
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