RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,913
Posts: 5,331,118
Members: 24,558
Currently online: 540
Newest member: laurah2215

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 22 2012, 12:51 PM   #91
Shaytan
Vice Admiral
 
Shaytan's Avatar
 
Location: Paris, Fr, EU.
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Shaytan
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

White or red ? For the wine I mean, I need to celebrate that.
__________________
Not on strike.
Shaytan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 03:13 PM   #92
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
Aaaaand it's done. UCI confirms USADA's recommended penalties. No recourse against that decision from what I understand, it's final: Armstrong has never won the Tour de France.
This whole Lance Armstrong doping business smacks to me of character assassination. I don't trust the media for they just suck up to character assassination without questioning the facts, I don't trust the anti-doping agencies because if they were doing their jobs none of these scandals would occur. The fact is big money is involved, that means there must be results and the best must be better so have them cheat and bribe the USADA or whatever anti-doping organization.

In today's world you were either born famous/successful/rich or you made it by getting lucky, cheating and grafting, or you have insider knowledge. It's funny but the more mainstream and commercialized a sport, the more these 'revelations' about doping come out.

Lance Armstrong is just another classic ritualistic sacrifice designed to maintain the illusion that the USADA is doing its job, whilst crushing quite a few people's hopes and it won't really do anything to the sport. Because people will still watch it and will forget about this doping scandal thanks to the trivialized 24/7 media. That's what 'they' want; a good farce to distract the sheeple.

Besides if Lance Armstrong was the world's best, and they all cheated, it just proves he was special. Or perhaps he outcheated the cheaters. Besides this whole doping thing is a bit of a misnomer; athletes are supposedly the perfect physical specimens of humanity. If they're perfect most of that was made through design and a little help from their genes to. I mean if you eat a special food which makes your heart faster you can have it, but if you take some drugs to achieve the same affect that's a no-no?

Maybe there should be two classes for sports and cycling; the doping league and the non-doping league?
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 03:19 PM   #93
Deckerd
Fleet Arse
 
Deckerd's Avatar
 
Location: the Frozen Wastes
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

So what you're saying is that when someone runs a doping scam on such a massive scale he acquires heroic status?
__________________
They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
Deckerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 04:59 PM   #94
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

So, which dope-using cyclists are Armstrong's titles going to be given to?

Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 05:06 PM   #95
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
So what you're saying is that when someone runs a doping scam on such a massive scale he acquires heroic status?
I sincerely doubt it was solely Lance Armstrong who ran this whole doping operation, if nearly all the top cyclists have been doping themselves then a) Lance Armstrong has been scapegoated, and b) doping is part of this sport.

If the top cyclists are doping junkies then it stands to chance they're all taking the same substances, thus Lance and his competition are technically on the same footing. Besides it looks pretty clear that in the recent past every cyclist took performance enhancing drugs. I mean if Lance's whole team were in on this scheme, then other cycling teams must have known about it (cos' they must have scouts and people spying on other teams), and they didn't seem to be bitching about it too much. Which means they too were concocting elaborate doping schemes just as Lance allegedly was.

Besides, the definition of 'fairness' in a profession sports is a joke. Team GB's athletic velodrome bikers have the best bicycles and helmets in the world due to advanced aerodynamics technology; no other country can match Britain in that regard. That whole industry is kept under close wraps. Is it any wonder why Britain wins so many medals in velodrome events?

F1 cars are never alike because each team can use different materials and even components. The team with the most reliable and fastest car wins; so much for racing talent prevailing.

In virtually every sport there is always some part of it where it can be tailored to suit the individual, no sport is ever truly standardized. If athletes are allowed an unfair advantage through technological or equipment means, why are they penalized due to biological means?

It seems to me that the team or country with the best technology, the best training facilities, and the more money to spend, tend to have the greater number of winners and medals in sporting events. Besides with or without doping, their are athletes who break new records and wipe out the competition; which is pure natural talent. I still think Lance had such talent and if his competition was equally doped up then he won fair and square. Besides the guy suffered from some serious cancer problems, it should have been the end of his career and probably the end of his life, yet he went on to win some more Tour de France titles. If that isn't talent I don't know what is.

Whether he was innocent or just as crooked as the rest of his peers, Lance Armstrong has undergone character assassination. Every corrupt organization makes these ritualistic sacrifices to pretend it's getting serious with its sleaze and wrongdoing. The government does it, the banks do it (think Lehman Brothers), it even happens with respectable sports.

When the dust has settled, some new doping rules will be brought in. Now, either cyclists and their teams 'fess up and admit they were rather naughty and clean up their act (and we'll know it if world records aren't broken for many years), or the big money buys up the USADA and new performance enhancing drugs are used.

If the scandal becomes too big and does not settle down, expect the WHOLE cycling sport and the USADA to be sacrificed (and by that I mean all the corruption is brought to the light) so that the powers that be can sooth public opinion.
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 05:06 PM   #96
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
So, which dope-using cyclists are Armstrong's titles going to be given to?

I read a while back that at least the TDF officials were contemplating to simply have no official winners for those TDF's. No idea if that option is still on the table or if it ever was more than a rumour.
Defcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 05:24 PM   #97
Shaytan
Vice Admiral
 
Shaytan's Avatar
 
Location: Paris, Fr, EU.
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Shaytan
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Defcon wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
So, which dope-using cyclists are Armstrong's titles going to be given to?

I read a while back that at least the TDF officials were contemplating to simply have no official winners for those TDF's. No idea if that option is still on the table or if it ever was more than a rumour.
It's not a rumour, it's the official position of the direction of the Tour.

Edit : wow, wikipedia already erased his name from the winner list. Like he never existed...if only...
__________________
Not on strike.

Last edited by Shaytan; October 22 2012 at 05:35 PM.
Shaytan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 06:23 PM   #98
Roger Wilco
Admiral
 
Roger Wilco's Avatar
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Shaytan wrote: View Post
Edit : wow, wikipedia already erased his name from the winner list. Like he never existed...if only...
I like that 1999-2005 is on the same level as WWI and WWII now.

And @Dennis: It's a fallacy to think that doping is an equaliser. The USADA investigation into the US Postal conspiracy proved convincingly that their doping program was the most sophisticated and integrated of all time. Lance Armstrong was not just doped, he was doped more than anyone else, and maybe even worse, forced the dope on his teammates as well.

He was not "the best of a bunch of cheaters" or whatever, he was the preeminent cheater in the sport. Someone whose natural talent never would have gotten him close to the top in the Tour and who poisoned the soup for hundreds of legitimate athletes over almost decade.
__________________
Don't be a douche.
Roger Wilco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 06:45 PM   #99
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Defcon wrote: View Post
I read a while back that at least the TDF officials were contemplating to simply have no official winners for those TDF's. No idea if that option is still on the table or if it ever was more than a rumour.
Really. They either have to rebuild the entire sport from scratch or remain hypocrites.

It's exactly as if the IFBB had decided to investigate and strip Schwarzenegger of his seven (coincidentally) Olympia wins. Everyone on the stage was juiced, and still is.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 06:51 PM   #100
J.T.B.
Commodore
 
J.T.B.'s Avatar
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

From AFP today:
[Armstrong's] Tour victories are unlikely to be re-awarded, the race's director Christian Prudhomme has said. The void would prevent further headaches, given that most riders who finished on the podium in that time have since been implicated in doping.

But the final decision will come in a special UCI meeting on Friday.
Ln X wrote: View Post
I sincerely doubt it was solely Lance Armstrong who ran this whole doping operation, if nearly all the top cyclists have been doping themselves then a) Lance Armstrong has been scapegoated, and b) doping is part of this sport.
Not solely Armstrong, of course, but he was right in the middle of covering up and deceiving regulators. Read the affidavits.

If the top cyclists are doping junkies then it stands to chance they're all taking the same substances, thus Lance and his competition are technically on the same footing. Besides it looks pretty clear that in the recent past every cyclist took performance enhancing drugs. I mean if Lance's whole team were in on this scheme, then other cycling teams must have known about it (cos' they must have scouts and people spying on other teams), and they didn't seem to be bitching about it too much. Which means they too were concocting elaborate doping schemes just as Lance allegedly was.
Look at the "sport" you're describing above. "Substances" and "schemes" and "spying." The fact that there is such a furor about the doping scandal shows pretty clearly that the majority of fans are not interested in a contest between who has the most sophisticated dope labs and cover-up operations.

F1 cars are never alike because each team can use different materials and even components. The team with the most reliable and fastest car wins; so much for racing talent prevailing.
But there are volumes of rules and specs that the cars are supposed to comply with. If a team breaks those rules but finds an effective way to deceive the technical inspectors, does that mean they deserve to win?

In virtually every sport there is always some part of it where it can be tailored to suit the individual, no sport is ever truly standardized. If athletes are allowed an unfair advantage through technological or equipment means, why are they penalized due to biological means?
How about: Because the rules of the sport they are participating in forbid it?
J.T.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 07:03 PM   #101
Deckerd
Fleet Arse
 
Deckerd's Avatar
 
Location: the Frozen Wastes
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Ln X wrote: View Post

Besides, the definition of 'fairness' in a profession sports is a joke. Team GB's athletic velodrome bikers have the best bicycles and helmets in the world due to advanced aerodynamics technology; no other country can match Britain in that regard. That whole industry is kept under close wraps. Is it any wonder why Britain wins so many medals in velodrome events?

F1 cars are never alike because each team can use different materials and even components. The team with the most reliable and fastest car wins; so much for racing talent prevailing.
There's nothing in the world to stop every other cycling team to develop their own technology. The fact that the GB team are fast is mostly down to the sheer numbers of cyclists there are and because they go round schools recruiting sporty kids and then training them up, on a huge scale. In any case you immediately rebut your own argument by mentioning F1. So long as the equipment conforms to the rules it's fair. That's the definition of fair. Not pumping yourself with EPO.
__________________
They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
Deckerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 07:14 PM   #102
Roger Wilco
Admiral
 
Roger Wilco's Avatar
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

The F1 comparison is nonsense anyway, since the car in motorsports is far, far more important to a driver's success than a cyclist's bike or helmet. Beyond the marketing bullshit, there's very little that differentiates the top-of-the-line bicycles from each other. In fact I would be willing to make the hypothesis, that no cyclist in the last 20 years has won a race thanks to his bike, nor lost it because of it. (not counting mechanical problems).

The Team UK bikes are a little different, and I criticised their secrecy during the Olympics also, but I would be shocked if they really made a difference. Do you really think the British know more about aerodynamics and carbon fiber than German, French, American, Korean, etc. billion-dollar multinational companies? Not to mention that the rules what bicycle designs can be in official races don't even allow for any radical changes.
__________________
Don't be a douche.
Roger Wilco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 07:21 PM   #103
Shaytan
Vice Admiral
 
Shaytan's Avatar
 
Location: Paris, Fr, EU.
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Shaytan
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Track cycling is certainly not the best exemple anyway because if there is a sport where doping is an institution...
__________________
Not on strike.
Shaytan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 07:27 PM   #104
Deckerd
Fleet Arse
 
Deckerd's Avatar
 
Location: the Frozen Wastes
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Bradley Wiggins was complaining about the new rules for the velodrome Olympics. They changed the rules so that all races were gender equal, which is fine but got rid of quite a few of the different variations (this despite the fact that the swimming Olympics has a bewildering array of similar competitions). They also reduced the number of competitors from one country to two for each competition (where else in the Olympics is this rule in place?) All of these changes was to prevent the British (or any other dominant country) cleaning up at the Olympics. How did that work out then guys? Bradley's complaint: for every one British competitor in every race there were a couple of world champions sat at home. Nobody begrudges a Jamaican one two three at the 100m but cycling apparently is a different bucket of spanners.
__________________
They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
Deckerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22 2012, 07:27 PM   #105
Hound of UIster
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
So what you're saying is that when someone runs a doping scam on such a massive scale he acquires heroic status?
Sure.

There are people who still believe Jerry Sandusky was thrown under the bus to take the fall for Paterno.
Hound of UIster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.