Kate Mulgrew's decision to not have a romance

[BirdInJetstream]

Maybe this is a completely wrong observation on my side, but I always found that Janeway had the strongest sexual tension with Kashyk. He was an asshole and betrayed (tried so) her and her crew. No doubts about that. But he was also very cunning, witty and an intellectual challenge. I can't imagine that she would want someone (for a relationship) who isn't at least an equal to her intellectually.

[teacake]

She was seducing Kashyk to save her crew. So she had her "well played" seduction powers at maximum level, hence the tension.

And yes I agree about the intellect, of course she had to tweak Sullivan. She may have found him attractive at first but eventually he would have said something quite parochial and it would have been a cold bucket on her ardor.

Janeway's personal log on Fair Haven:

"I met an interesting man there, and for a while I almost forgot he was a hologram. We weren't exactly compatible, but then again, Mister Paris didn't programme him to my specifications. "

[Guy Gardener]

teacock wrote:

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No, because he is a wuss.

OR maybe he went back to that program when no one else was in it so he could rewrite her without his friends seeing.

You mean after the hologram fell for Tuvok, or after we found out that the hologram was really a bored alien pretending to be a hologram, so that she could have a sexcation?

Kim also spent days trying to kiss that fairhaven girl who transformed into a cow.

You would think there would be rules against sex during the communal programs when groups are in the holodeck together?

Or did Kathryn kick everyone out before she took her briefs off?

Even if Security were'nt "filming" kathy, what Michael did to her was in the memory cashe for instant replay at any time, and you could work out what the Captain was doing from where and how Michael was shagging negative space.

[teacake]

A locked door is a locked door even on the holodeck. If someone needs to find Janeway they will comm her, not go looking physically through Fair Haven. I don't think the inn would have been the place though, too much likelihood one of the holograms would need Sullivan for some inn business and come calling upstairs, interrupting things. I don't think she would have had the holodeck to herself, the crew is there because they are all stressed out about something and if she put a Do Not Disturb sign on the holodeck door it would mean some would miss their play day because they would be back at work by the time she left.

And I'm sure she deleted the cache of her activities.. though there must be some privacy measures in place for people using the holodeck for sex.

[BirdInJetstream]

Can't she simply run it in her private holodeck time? Without making public what she is actually running that is...

[teacake]

I was going to say private holodeck time doesn't make sense considering how many would be off duty at any given time but we saw plenty of private programs, B'Elanna and Tom on dates etc..

[Guy Gardener]

Fairhaven was being run 24/7 with an open door policy to help the crew deal with stress.

Stem to stern (tip of the hull to the rear end of the nacels) Voyager is 345 meters long and 135 meters wide.

If someone is having sex 345 meters away you can usually hear it.

If these sketches are accurate

http://www.utopiaplanitia.info/voyholo.html

Given the size of the door into the holodeck, then the dimensions of the holodeck itself is perhaps 12 by 8 metres.

With how the Riker explained that the holodeck works in Encouter at Farpoint in conflict with your senses, that you're looking at a holographic sheer that seems to be miles and miles of countryside, which is actualy a thin cutain persisting an optical illusion between you and someone else centermtres away getting jiggy in front of the flip side of the sheer. Sure they can use sound baffling technology to mask sex noises and perhaps other peoples routine sexless adventures with perspective and trickery to have the crew believe that they are in vast alien vista instead of an oversized stateroom... But what about the smell?

How do they baffle the sex smells?

...

I saw a movie yesterday called "Ruby Sparks". A celebrated author is so lonely that a character from his novel leaps out of the world of fiction and becomes his girlfriend. She doesn't know that she's not real, but every time he adds to the book she's in, it changes her character, it effects who she is and how she operates. A very tedious movie until she gets bored and tries to leave him. Then he keeps making changes until she's unbearable and Ruby is not the "person" who he fell in love with until in the hieght of an argument she says "you can't control me!" and it it gets really fracking sadistic as he prooves that she has to do every thing his typewriter dictates.

[Nightdiamond]

You can bet she deleted everything--

I don't think it so much the fantasy about cheating, as much as she knew the character had a wife, and needed her out the way to get what she wanted from him.

Janeway's personal log on Fair Haven:

"I met an interesting man there, and for a while I almost forgot he was a hologram. We weren't exactly compatible, but then again, Mister Paris didn't programme him to my specifications. "

This is interesting, because there was obviously something about his roughness that attracted her to him.

But even more telling, she nearly forgot he was a hologram, he was so realistic to her.

Which suggests she had to have taken his marriage seriously--she fell for him anyway, and technically speaking, got rid of the wife.

I know this sounds silly, but the issue still remains, would the wife have liked what she did with her husband?

[teacake]

Is he making her unbearable with his changes so he doesn't want to keep her any more? Poisoning his love to break it off?

As to the smell I'm sure that's well taken care of. Otherwise much stronger smells like Neeix bbq'ing something would still be in your nose when you were miles away in the hololand.

[Guy Gardener]

It was 19th century Ireland, not to different from Ireland today.

The wife is allowed to hit you once with the frying pan and then all is forgiven.



What I learnt from watching 3 seasons of Deadwood is that wives would not give and would not be asked to give blow jobs. It was seen as unclean, and doubly so for sodomy. Which is why prostitutes were a necessary evil before men and women could talk frankly about their sexual needs before committing to the rest of their lives together.

[teacake]

Nightdiamond wrote:

---

You can bet she deleted everything--

I don't think it so much the fantasy about cheating, as much as she knew the character had a wife, and needed her out the way to get what she wanted from him.

This is interesting, because there was obviously something about his roughness that attracted her to him.

But even more telling, she nearly forgot he was a hologram, he was so realistic to her.

Which suggests she had to have taken his marriage seriously--she fell for him anyway, and technically speaking, got rid of the wife.

I know this sounds silly, but the issue still remains, would the wife have liked what she did with her husband?

Of course she wouldn't have liked it, her barkeep husband has morphed into a poetry reader shouting to the world about his broken heart from a tree. I think Janeway put a little too much poetry into the dude.

As to what attracted her in the first place, well he was a good enough looking fellow in a quirky way and he was friendly and enjoyed her company. He's not rough or crude, I'm not sure what "roughness" you are referring to. Uneducated, sure.

[BirdInJetstream]

How do people manage to walk more than those real existing 12m in a holodeck? Was that question ever addressed somewhere?

[teacake]

Guy Gardener wrote:

---

It was 19th century Ireland, not to different from Ireland today.

The wife is allowed to hit you once with the frying pan and then all is forgiven.



What I learnt from watching 3 seasons of Deadwood is that wives would not give and would not be asked to give blow jobs. It was seen as unclean, and doubly so for sodomy. Which is why prostitutes were a necessary evil before men and women could talk frankly about their sexual needs before committing to the rest of their lives together.

There was some horrible movie about the Mob with Billy Crystal who sets my teeth on edge as a Psychiatrist. He asks the mafia guy he's following around in some kind of therapy adventure why he goes to prostitutes when he clearly adores his wife. The mob guy tells him it's to get blow jobs and Billy asks why he can't do this with his wife and the mafia guy says,

"You want her to do that with the mouth she kisses my children good night with?!"

[Guy Gardener]

Analyse this, followed by a sequel called Analyse that, or vice versus.

You forget De Niro?

He was more my parents generation, but the lad is a giant.

I watched all of Soap recently.

For a gay guy, Billy('s character) had a LOT of sex with women because he kept finding loopholes or assuming that he had been cured.

"Sigh"

The ventriloquists dummy had more sincerity than Billy's commitment to his characters homosexuality.

[teacake]

I liked him in Soap. That was the last time I liked him