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Old October 17 2012, 03:29 AM   #121
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
I'm going with part of the virus's changes is to make the zombie body more resistant to decomposition.
Yet we see decomposition, going all the way back to the first episode and "bicycle girl."
Not Totally.
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Old October 17 2012, 07:30 AM   #122
SonOfMogh
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
I'm going with part of the virus's changes is to make the zombie body more resistant to decomposition.
Yet we see decomposition, going all the way back to the first episode and "bicycle girl."
She was eaten by a large group of zombies.

If zombies ate a person and literally all that was left was the brain which the zombies couldn't get to through the skull, that brain would be an active walker brain with no body to control.

And to address a few misconceptions relating to zombies I'd suggest checking out the early Romero moves this series is based on, to clear up a few points;

* Anyone who dies through any means will reanimate as a zombie unless there has been brain trauma.

* Being bitten by a zombie doesn't give you the 'zombie virus', but it will lead to death due to infection which cannot be treated (aside from immediate amputation), it is this death which leads to the inevitable reanimation.

* Zombies behavior is controlled by instinct and they have a drive to eat, but the food they swallow is not in any way processed by their body, which is dead and doesn't have working digestion etc. You can remove a zombies stomach and it will still eat, with the chewed up food falling out onto the floor, this would not lead to a quicker decomposition.

* It is unknown whether zombies continue to decompose or at what rate, they do become damaged over time though as their bodies cannot heal as they are dead.

* Most importantly, nobody knows why everyone reanimates and they never will. The zombie plague isn't an important part of the story, it is a plot device to justify an apocalypse in a horror setting. The story is always focused on the characters and how they react to the situation.
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Old October 17 2012, 09:36 AM   #123
RJDonner&Blitzen
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
I'm going with part of the virus's changes is to make the zombie body more resistant to decomposition.
Yet we see decomposition, going all the way back to the first episode and "bicycle girl."
The virus allows them to decompose enough to be wicked scary, but no more.

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Lame copout at best. If they just started flying, you'd have a problem with it, so there IS a limit to what you'll accept as 'normal' when it comes to this already imaginary creature. Seems my limit is just a little closer to what actually exists, whereas your limit involves more 'magiks' from the get-go. Certain conceits are required, I just like it to make a little more sense, I guess.

From what you're saying, though, you'd have no leg to stand on if you bitched when they started flying...
No, that's completely different. Flying would violate laws of physics. There are many ways to mummify a body or prevent or slow decomposition. The toxic cell idea is a good one.
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Old October 17 2012, 11:38 AM   #124
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Zombies flying would be ridiculous, but zombies spontaneously developing a perpetual, self-sustaining energy system is totally believable?

Requires energy to move the muscles in a human body. Zombies aren't eating, or at least aren't getting anything from it, as stated above. Where's this energy source? Perfectly believable under current laws of physics that the virus could provide a boost, and this would keep the zombies going as it burned through all the reserves and the zombie ran out of gas eventually. Not something that can be maintained forever, though, unless the magic virus also has the key to unlimited energy sources that require no input or fuel to maintain.

So really just a matter of which laws of physics you're ok with breaking. Flying isn't any more or less impossible, just sillier. Mumifying a body requires drying it out, and NOT having it running around anymore. Slowing decomposition is all well and good, but still need fuel for the electrical energy moving those muscles requires. If you don't put more wood on the fire, it'll eventually burn out. Even if you treat the wood to burn slower, it's still consumed eventually...
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Old October 17 2012, 04:05 PM   #125
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Cutter John wrote: View Post
I like Max Brooks explaination that along with jellifying the victims blood, the 'zombie virus' toxifies the victims cells, rendering it toxic to living creatures including flies, and the bacteria that causes decomposition.
Max Brook's argument makes sense and works for me. I really think that alot of people have mistaken drying out for decomposition. If we assume that the bacteria responsible for decomposition will not consume zombies, the only thing that will ultimately impact the zombie is drying out (this is kind of supported by the fact that zombies can also be destroyed by fire). Actually the one thing that they might get from consuming bodies is water (though they have no functioning digestive or cirulatory system). Once free of the spectre of decomposition, zombies in temperate and colder climates will have an advantage over those in warmer, drier climates.

Zombies in the desert out to just dry out including the brain. Zombies in temperate/cold climates might freeze in the winter but they will benefit from enough atmispheric moisture to keep them "viable".
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Old October 17 2012, 04:14 PM   #126
Gotham Central
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Seriously, you're arguing about the scientific plauseability of ZOMBIES

Dude don't do that. Tehz Magik!

Zombies are automatically exempt from any known laws about temperature and decomposition because by definition, dead things don't get up an walkaround without some serious external intervention that changes the rules.
Lame copout at best. If they just started flying, you'd have a problem with it, so there IS a limit to what you'll accept as 'normal' when it comes to this already imaginary creature. Seems my limit is just a little closer to what actually exists, whereas your limit involves more 'magiks' from the get-go. Certain conceits are required, I just like it to make a little more sense, I guess.

From what you're saying, though, you'd have no leg to stand on if you bitched when they started flying...
Flying zombies might look silly to me but I have no objective reason to oppose the concept since its already a creature that operates outside of normal biological processes.

No one seems to think its weired that Vampires, which when you think about are nothing more than high functioning zombies, have superpowers. Hell Vampires, who are dead, have no circulatory system, and don't need to breathe manage to heal, have super strenght and speed, sometimes fly (depending on the mythos)...and all of them seem to have sex.
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Old October 17 2012, 04:16 PM   #127
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Like I said, though, the trick is getting the energy required to MOVE (or lurch) that undead citizen around. You're not taking anything new in, so you're stuck with the energy you started with. Once you burn through the reserves, no more functioning zombie. You aren't pulling energy from a ZPM, it's gotta come from something. And that jellifying of the blood is fine as far as that goes, but it also means it's not circulating, so no new oxygen or blood to those cells. Like the ones in the brain. So they'd be borked almost within minutes. Since they are ok without even HAVING lungs, they don't appear to need oxygen. No blood circulating means body temp won't regulate either, so they'd be even MORE screwed with hot and cold, things would be falling off everywhere! You appear to still need a functioning brain (even if they don't really use it) to be a live zombie, the jelled, non-circulating blood won't lead to that, it'll lead to dead zombies.

So: no oyxgen to tissues, no circulating blood, no new energy into system. Kinda bad that by trying to explain why they don't rot, you killed the thing that was allowing them to MOVE.

You're into just accepting "a wizard did it" within about an hour of infection. Hand-waving part of it away just makes more obvious problems in other areas.
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Old October 17 2012, 05:33 PM   #128
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

SonOfMogh wrote: View Post

* Most importantly, nobody knows why everyone reanimates and they never will. The zombie plague isn't an important part of the story, it is a plot device to justify an apocalypse in a horror setting. The story is always focused on the characters and how they react to the situation.
In the Walking Dead however on the CDC episode, Jenner says that ..'the French were close,' to a cure.
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Old October 17 2012, 09:11 PM   #129
SonOfMogh
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

DarthTom wrote: View Post
SonOfMogh wrote: View Post

* Most importantly, nobody knows why everyone reanimates and they never will. The zombie plague isn't an important part of the story, it is a plot device to justify an apocalypse in a horror setting. The story is always focused on the characters and how they react to the situation.
In the Walking Dead however on the CDC episode, Jenner says that ..'the French were close,' to a cure.
Maybe they thought they were on to something, but that facility fell as did the CDC, and there's nobody left with that kind of technology. It's also entirely possible that they would've eventually run into a brick wall with their possible solution.

Jenner didn't even know if it was a virus/ microbe/ bacteria etc with all of his resources, he had been in contact with the French and if they knew this basic bit of information one would have expected them share it with him.
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Old October 17 2012, 09:13 PM   #130
SonOfMogh
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Like I said, though, the trick is getting the energy required to MOVE (or lurch) that undead citizen around. You're not taking anything new in, so you're stuck with the energy you started with. Once you burn through the reserves, no more functioning zombie. You aren't pulling energy from a ZPM, it's gotta come from something. And that jellifying of the blood is fine as far as that goes, but it also means it's not circulating, so no new oxygen or blood to those cells. Like the ones in the brain. So they'd be borked almost within minutes. Since they are ok without even HAVING lungs, they don't appear to need oxygen. No blood circulating means body temp won't regulate either, so they'd be even MORE screwed with hot and cold, things would be falling off everywhere! You appear to still need a functioning brain (even if they don't really use it) to be a live zombie, the jelled, non-circulating blood won't lead to that, it'll lead to dead zombies.

So: no oyxgen to tissues, no circulating blood, no new energy into system. Kinda bad that by trying to explain why they don't rot, you killed the thing that was allowing them to MOVE.

You're into just accepting "a wizard did it" within about an hour of infection. Hand-waving part of it away just makes more obvious problems in other areas.
I think that's why they went with an entirely different type of outbreak in such as the 28 Days Later movies, the zombie outbreak isn't remotely plausible due to basic thermodynamics.
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Old October 18 2012, 02:44 AM   #131
the G-man
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Really, and this theory has its own flaws, but the most 'realistic' explanation for how the virus works is that it's some sort of nanotechnology gone horrily awry.
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Old October 18 2012, 03:40 AM   #132
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I'll just go with "a wizard did it".
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Old October 18 2012, 05:04 AM   #133
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

sojourner wrote: View Post
I'll just go with "a wizard did it".
for all we know the "wizard" really did do it! This all could be supernatural we just don't know it yet
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Old October 18 2012, 05:13 AM   #134
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

the G-man wrote: View Post
Really, and this theory has its own flaws, but the most 'realistic' explanation for how the virus works is that it's some sort of nanotechnology gone horrily awry.
Is there any other sort?
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Old October 18 2012, 05:14 AM   #135
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

sojourner wrote: View Post
I'll just go with "a wizard did it".
Yea, you can't appreciate Trek without accepting Warp Drive, likewise, Zombies Reanimate and have an unquenchable hunger and drive wether they should've burned out by now or not, if you can't accept that, you can't enjoy Zombies
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