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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 16 2012, 05:40 PM   #31
los2188
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
ralph wrote: View Post
At the top of the cover, on the left, enlarging the image, I saw a shadow of a ship (I think so), a nascelle and a disc, but itīs not like the Enterprise. Can anyone see this or itīs an illusion?
I don't see it...

I just watched the TOS episode Where No Man Has Gone Before and it dawned on me that this picture appears to be a man, I presume Kirk and or Mitchell, with a ripped Starfleet uniform, just like it was ripped in that episode. Am I alone in that opinion?
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Old October 16 2012, 06:02 PM   #32
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

imagination, fantasy? ok, it is possible. But if it is a ship, it reminded me a Miranda Class.

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Old October 16 2012, 07:05 PM   #33
Shilliam Watner
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
ralph wrote: View Post
At the top of the cover, on the left, enlarging the image, I saw a shadow of a ship (I think so), a nascelle and a disc, but itīs not like the Enterprise. Can anyone see this or itīs an illusion?
I don't see it...
I enlarged the comic cover and you can definitely see the Enterprise on the left side of the cover headed towards (or coming from) what appears to be a object in the distance shaped just like the Doomsday Machine. Go check it out and enlarge it. The Doomsday Machine object is just above the Enterprise shape. There is no doubt!!
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Old October 16 2012, 07:12 PM   #34
Shilliam Watner
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

los2188 wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
ralph wrote: View Post
At the top of the cover, on the left, enlarging the image, I saw a shadow of a ship (I think so), a nascelle and a disc, but itīs not like the Enterprise. Can anyone see this or itīs an illusion?
I don't see it...

I just watched the TOS episode Where No Man Has Gone Before and it dawned on me that this picture appears to be a man, I presume Kirk and or Mitchell, with a ripped Starfleet uniform, just like it was ripped in that episode. Am I alone in that opinion?
I definitely agree. The shirt is torn exactly like it was in the episode with the neck ring intact.
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Old October 16 2012, 07:22 PM   #35
Shilliam Watner
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

ralph wrote: View Post
imagination?

That is a Doomsday Machine the arrow is pointing to. Notice the large ring shape maw the arrow points to on the right side of the conical object and see how it tapers to a point on the end. The object just under it to the left is the Enterprise headed towards it or coming from it.
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Old October 16 2012, 08:10 PM   #36
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Okay, for the record, let's go over everything:

1. Nothing anyone has said to date needs to be taken as gospel truth. Their first concern is making a successful movie, and to the general public, no publicity has happened yet, and won't happen until much closer to the premiere date.

2. It's more likely than not that Cumberbatch's character is an existing character from TOS. After all, Abrams made the whole movie series about known characters. He could have invented all new characters but he didn't, and why? Brand name recognition= butts in seats.

3. What villain has the most, heck any, brand name value? Khan. And that's it, no other Trek villain from TOS has pop culture awareness.

4. But can Khan work as a villain in a two hour movie? Tricky. He will be starting from zero since his backstory is "bad guy frim Eugenics Wars" and that's it. The audience needs to be told: What is the Eugenics Wars? What was Khan's role in it? Why do the charatcers care about this part of their history? Why should the audience care? And by the tme you've gotten through all that blahblahblah, the audience is bored and has gone to the lobby for popcorn.

5. The biggest problem with Khan is: what makes him dangerous? he's just some guy from a previous time period. Is he dangerous because he's super sexy? Super persuasive? That's not the kind of threat that translates well to a summer popcorn movie. But an insane guy with superpowers and glowing eyes, now we're talking!

So, Khan has the advantage of helping promote the movie, but trying to shoehorn him into a fast-paced action movie is problematic. He could be rewritten to make him more action-movie-ready, but why bother? That guy already exists.

Plus the edge of the galaxy = darkness is an easy connection. There's nothing dark about Khan, he's a very upbeat guy, until he gets bitter later on but there's no time in a two hour movie to cover all that.
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Old October 16 2012, 08:21 PM   #37
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
I highly doubt Abrams would take such an approach given the cliche action heavy style of the last movie, but it's a possibility.
The next movie will be even more "cliche action heavy" because the recurring characters have all been introduced so now Abrams is free to just make the kind of staightforward action flick that audiences flock to. That's the nature of the modern movie biz, nothng any of us or Abrams can do about it.

Gary Mitchell is the perfect candidate, not just because he requires very little boring explanation (oh no, his magic superpowers have driven him insane with megalomania!) but because his history with Kirk makes his story personal for Kirk and can help propel Kirk's character growth, which is badly needed for the next movie. Above all, Kirk can't be the same punk kid at the end as at the beginning.

Envision this as a movie trailer. Works perfectly. Action! Danger! Easy to understand!

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Old October 16 2012, 08:34 PM   #38
Morpheus 02
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

teacock wrote: View Post
I want the villain to be.. time.
We already had that. It's why the actors were recast.
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Old October 16 2012, 09:26 PM   #39
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

A character with superpowers would be a god, almost unbeatable. I think Gary Mitchell would be ideal, because he is human, friend of Kirk and Spock, Starfleet officer. With powers, but without being a god, he is a high level villain.
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Old October 17 2012, 12:43 AM   #40
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Shilliam Watner wrote: View Post
I definitely agree. The shirt is torn exactly like it was in the episode with the neck ring intact.
Was the neck ring intact?:

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Old October 17 2012, 04:25 AM   #41
Shilliam Watner
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
Shilliam Watner wrote: View Post
I definitely agree. The shirt is torn exactly like it was in the episode with the neck ring intact.
Was the neck ring intact?:

At one point it was lol
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Old October 17 2012, 05:44 AM   #42
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote: View Post
Okay, for the record, let's go over everything:

1. Nothing anyone has said to date needs to be taken as gospel truth. Their first concern is making a successful movie, and to the general public, no publicity has happened yet, and won't happen until much closer to the premiere date.

2. It's more likely than not that Cumberbatch's character is an existing character from TOS. After all, Abrams made the whole movie series about known characters. He could have invented all new characters but he didn't, and why? Brand name recognition= butts in seats.

3. What villain has the most, heck any, brand name value? Khan. And that's it, no other Trek villain from TOS has pop culture awareness.

4. But can Khan work as a villain in a two hour movie? Tricky. He will be starting from zero since his backstory is "bad guy frim Eugenics Wars" and that's it. The audience needs to be told: What is the Eugenics Wars? What was Khan's role in it? Why do the charatcers care about this part of their history? Why should the audience care? And by the tme you've gotten through all that blahblahblah, the audience is bored and has gone to the lobby for popcorn.

5. The biggest problem with Khan is: what makes him dangerous? he's just some guy from a previous time period. Is he dangerous because he's super sexy? Super persuasive? That's not the kind of threat that translates well to a summer popcorn movie. But an insane guy with superpowers and glowing eyes, now we're talking!

So, Khan has the advantage of helping promote the movie, but trying to shoehorn him into a fast-paced action movie is problematic. He could be rewritten to make him more action-movie-ready, but why bother? That guy already exists.

Plus the edge of the galaxy = darkness is an easy connection. There's nothing dark about Khan, he's a very upbeat guy, until he gets bitter later on but there's no time in a two hour movie to cover all that.
I'll believe 1 but the rest is kinda more of an assumption and expectations on your part. They said it was more drama heavy and "bigger", whatever that means. Could it be an Undiscovered Country kinda flick? Black Ops in the Federation doing bad things? I can see that happening. It could be a spy flick.

That's assuming Section 31 (or some other order) has anything to do with this.
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Old October 17 2012, 10:53 AM   #43
Oso Blanco
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote: View Post
But can Khan work as a villain in a two hour movie? Tricky. He will be starting from zero since his backstory is "bad guy frim Eugenics Wars" and that's it. The audience needs to be told: What is the Eugenics Wars? What was Khan's role in it? Why do the charatcers care about this part of their history? Why should the audience care? And by the tme you've gotten through all that blahblahblah, the audience is bored and has gone to the lobby for popcorn.
They managed to explain Khan's background in Space Seed in about one minute and a half, so why wouldn't it work in a movie?

Every character in every given movie has a certain backstory that is important for the respective movie, I don't see what the problem is here. Even if the villain in XII was a completely new character, he would still have a backstory that needed to be explained.

The Enterprise crew has already been introduced in the last movie, so they have even more time now to introduce whatever character they've chosen to put into the movie.
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Old October 17 2012, 11:06 AM   #44
iguana_tonante
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
It's a mixture of Mitchell and Khan created by a transporter accident.

Mitchellkhan.
I'd say "Khanchell" has a better ring to it.
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Old October 17 2012, 12:01 PM   #45
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Re: Speculation: Must the villain be Gary Mitchell, or... ?

BillJ wrote: View Post

I thought Orci had said the villain was a character we've seen from TOS?
AND

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure why everybody is so convinced that they're bringing back an old villain.
Because Bob Orci did say, ages ago, that at least one villain in the movie was to be a canonical TOS character. But, of course, that might not be Benedict Cumberbatch's character.
Umm... no.

IIRC, what Orci said was that a canonical Trek character... and a fan favorite at that... would appear in the film. He didn't even say for certain that this character would be a villain, though many of the articles that carried Orci's statements certainly interpreted it that way, and/or jumped to all sorts of unsupported conclusions.

Heck, I don't think he even specified that it was a character from TOS itself, but am pretty sure he referred to them simply as an established character that most Star Trek fans would recognize, and could have easily been referring to fans of the whole of the franchise, and not just TOS.

Moreover, he merely stated that the character in question would "appear in the film", and that statement is vague enough to cover a heck of a lot of ground, from an appearance that impacts the story in a significant or pivotal way, to little more than an "Easter Egg" that serves only to establish that this "fan favorite" still exists in the JJ Verse.

Personally, I'm betting on something along the lines of a humorous but insignificant cameo of Whoopie Goldberg in a silly flared hat, lasting only a few seconds, and featuring no more than a line or two of wise but witty dialogue.
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