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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old October 12 2012, 01:46 AM   #61
USS Triumphant
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Set Harth wrote: View Post
affected, not effected.
Yeah, I know the difference, but I still screw that up.
doubleohAHHHHHH!!!!! wrote: View Post
All the things he supposed and that's the thing you chose to comment on? Really?
Alright, so call me on some of what you had issue with. I'm game. Let's make this interesting.
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Old October 12 2012, 01:49 AM   #62
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

:lol I didn't mean it like that; I just thought it was silly that Set read your post closely enough to notice the misuse of the word but not comment on anything else.
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Old October 12 2012, 07:19 PM   #63
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Reading that post makes me think a really good Easter egg in the new movie would be someone having some of the Picard wine!
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Old October 13 2012, 03:00 AM   #64
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

This is fantastic. Rather than directly giving Starfleet knowledge of events to come --- Spock Prime, while during the day he's helping to manage colonization of the Vulcan diaspora, by night he forms an elite team consisting of Guinan, Data, and Emony Dax, to deal with threats such as the Doomsday Machine, the Whale Probe, Khan, etc.

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
Felisa Howard, Dr. Crusher's grandmother was born in 2201 and would presumably still exist along with her creepy candle-based lover Ronin.
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Old October 13 2012, 03:58 AM   #65
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

FKnight wrote: View Post
This is fantastic. Rather than directly giving Starfleet knowledge of events to come --- Spock Prime, while during the day he's helping to manage colonization of the Vulcan diaspora, by night he forms an elite team consisting of Guinan, Data, and Emony Dax, to deal with threats such as the Doomsday Machine, the Whale Probe, Khan, etc.
Throw in a young Morgan Bates and you've got yourself what I consider a quality plan, there.

FKnight wrote: View Post
Sadly, nowhere near as cool as that.
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Old October 13 2012, 04:53 AM   #66
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

I'd like to buzz cut that man. The shitlocks are too much.
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Old October 14 2012, 09:05 PM   #67
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Beehive, perhaps?
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Old October 14 2012, 09:07 PM   #68
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Set Harth wrote: View Post
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They believe that certain things are fated to happen, regardless of if it makes sense. They even said that time tries to repair itself, which is basically mumbo jumbo for fate, not determinism.
Orci: "For all those decrying fate, there is actually a quantum mechanical basis for the “fate function” in this film that we have discussed previously. In a multiverse where, as Data once said “anything that can happen, does happen, in a parallel universe…” there is a probability (a number) associated with each possible configuration. Those events that are most probable are theorized to occur more often in more similar universes. Thus, the idea that Kirk and Spock and Bones come together is merely an indication that the probability assigned to such an event is very high in the multiverse. Some may mistake this for blind fate."
If he's referring to the Many Worlds theory, the probability should be 100% and therfore fair game for a movie. Abrams can point the camera anyplace he chooses, and with infinite parallel realities from which to choose, any sequence of events a screenwriter can think of will be happening somewhere, for him to film.

Of course this is not how time travel has worked in Star Trek to date, but since when has logical consistency stopped the writers? They havent been particularly consistent before now.
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Old October 14 2012, 09:16 PM   #69
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote: View Post
Beehive, perhaps?
Or a Yeoman Rand basket-weave?
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Old October 15 2012, 05:54 AM   #70
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
They believe that certain things are fated to happen, regardless of if it makes sense. They even said that time tries to repair itself, which is basically mumbo jumbo for fate, not determinism.
Orci: "For all those decrying fate, there is actually a quantum mechanical basis for the “fate function” in this film that we have discussed previously. In a multiverse where, as Data once said “anything that can happen, does happen, in a parallel universe…” there is a probability (a number) associated with each possible configuration. Those events that are most probable are theorized to occur more often in more similar universes. Thus, the idea that Kirk and Spock and Bones come together is merely an indication that the probability assigned to such an event is very high in the multiverse. Some may mistake this for blind fate."
If he's referring to the Many Worlds theory, the probability should be 100% and therfore fair game for a movie. Abrams can point the camera anyplace he chooses, and with infinite parallel realities from which to choose, any sequence of events a screenwriter can think of will be happening somewhere, for him to film.

... .
I'm afraid not. The problem with Orci's "explanation" is that the JJverse was not a universe chosen form a near infinite number specifically because it matched what the writers intended.

It’s a universe that was, of course, based directly on the prime reality, but was then significantly disrupted. The normal result of that is to almost certainly make the events that happened in the prime universe less likely, not hasten their occurrence (in the most implausible ways possible)!

That means there is therefore nothing about the JJverse that implies a 100% probability that Kirk and Co will get together. In fact the opposite is obviously true. You would need to believe in fate or some form of Pantheism perhaps, for what we saw to actually occur.

Or as Ryan8bit responded, rather more succinctly, to Orci's excuse: "That is, of course, total hogwash.". I could have sworn he said "BS".

Last edited by UFO; October 15 2012 at 06:10 AM.
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Old October 15 2012, 12:51 PM   #71
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

UFO wrote: View Post
That means there is therefore nothing about the JJverse that implies a 100% probability that Kirk and Co will get together.
Orci never said that there was.

UFO wrote: View Post
In fact the opposite is obviously true.
I don't get what you mean by "the opposite" here. You don't mean 0%, I hope. Because that is obviously not true.

UFO wrote: View Post
You would need to believe in fate or some form of Pantheism perhaps, for what we saw to actually occur.
You would need nothing of the sort. What we saw was possible and thus required no divine intervention to occur.
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Old October 15 2012, 03:22 PM   #72
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Just to stir the pot:

Doesn't Spock say something (in City on the Edge…) to the effect that time flows like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash? Couldn't such a perspective influence the "JJ-universe" in such a way as to cause these people to come together, despite the odds against it, as it caused Spock and Kirk to come together with McCoy?

(I think the whole idea is errant nonsense if applied to the real world, but as it is a precedent in Trek, why not?)
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Old October 15 2012, 05:03 PM   #73
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

I don't think there's a precedent. Spock's line in CotEoF referred more to where time travelers end up, not that events are fated to happen as a result of time travel (it's quite clear that the opposite happens in that episode). It would be more analogous to Spock Prime and Nero arriving relatively near to each other position-wise.
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Old October 15 2012, 08:24 PM   #74
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Worth consideration is that Spock Prime was already back at Starfleet Command when the decision to leave Kirk in command of the Enterprise was made. Imagine a (obviously actually longer) conversation that goes something like this:

Spock Prime, speaking to the Federation President and the Admiralty: "So, in conclusion, gentlebeings, we can go ahead and act to preempt all of the threats (V'Ger, Khan, the Whalesong Probe, the parasites planning to take over Starfleet, the Borg, etc, etc) that I have just outlined for you. Oh, and I'm sure you'll agree that the Enterprise command crew as I knew them needs to be kept together with Kirk in command, to sharpshoot any other problems that may arise or that can't be preempted."

And if you think about it, this actually provides a REASON that the Enterprise may be "the only ship available", at least in this continuity: Starfleet is sending them on purpose.
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Old October 15 2012, 11:04 PM   #75
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

Set Harth wrote: View Post
UFO wrote: View Post
That means there is therefore nothing about the JJverse that implies a 100% probability that Kirk and Co will get together.
Orci never said that there was.
If you have been following the thread you will know I was actually responding to Temis the Friendly Ghost and she did say that.

UFO wrote: View Post
In fact the opposite is obviously true.
I don't get what you mean by "the opposite" here. You don't mean 0%, I hope. Because that is obviously not true.
Not the extreme opposite no. But I think it would be so close as to be hardly worth the qualification.

UFO wrote: View Post
You would need to believe in fate or some form of Pantheism perhaps, for what we saw to actually occur.
You would need nothing of the sort. What we saw was possible and thus required no divine intervention to occur.
"Possible" only in the sense that technically absolutely anything "might" happen (from our limited point of view), but is never-the-less so unlikely that we would normally attribute it to a deity etc, if it actually "did" happen. Indeed your use of italics seems to imply agreement thus rather undermining your: "nothing of the sort". Actually by saying something like the universe is trying to "repair itself" the writers are effectively endorsing Pantheism.
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