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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old October 11 2012, 10:14 PM   #31
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Rosalind wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
Paris wrote: View Post

I wish I could get a paper version of it .
Just suck it up and buy the eBook. That will help S&S decide to do more eBook only releases and by doing that, we can get more Star Trek each month.
except I don't know where to buy them anymore. my old ebook seller no longer sell them for residence outside N. America, and I refuse to buy from amazon.
BookWorld is one AU shop where you can buy eBooks in ePub. The link below is to The Struggle Within

http://www.bookworld.com.au/ebook/st...thin/27419572/
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Old October 11 2012, 10:38 PM   #32
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Ktrek wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And pardon the blowing of my own horn, but TrekMovie voted Typhon Pact: The Struggle Within the best short story or novella of 2011, and even called it the "clear winner... for all Star Trek fiction in 2011."
Not to be rude Chris but that could be just a reflection of the current state of Star Trek lit, which in my opinion is at a real low point. Not that your story was not good but I would have rated it as fair and no way the best of all Star Trek fiction for 2011. Star Trek books in general are getting less memorable. I kind of wish Pocket would reboot the whole book line and start fresh with some new blood and new ideas.

Kevin
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ktrek wrote: View Post
I kind of wish Pocket would reboot the whole book line and start fresh with some new blood and new ideas.

Kevin
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I'd have to disagree. Yeah, the last few books since Destiny haven't been quite as good as they were before and leading up to Destiny, but I would still rate them overall as very good, and would be very upset if they rebooted with new writers. Honestly, overall I'd say that what we are getting in Trek lit is the best Trek we've gotten since DS9 ended. I say that a big fan of both Voyager and Enterprise.
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Old October 12 2012, 11:07 PM   #33
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

JD wrote: View Post
I'd have to disagree. Yeah, the last few books since Destiny haven't been quite as good as they were before and leading up to Destiny, but I would still rate them overall as very good, and would be very upset if they rebooted with new writers. Honestly, overall I'd say that what we are getting in Trek lit is the best Trek we've gotten since DS9 ended. I say that a big fan of both Voyager and Enterprise.
Of course you're free to disagree with my opinion but to say "the last few books since Destiny haven't been quite as good" is an understatement. For one thing the word "few" in the context is incomprehensible. It has been almost four years since Destiny and there have been several dozen books released and none of them have been as good as the books leading up to and including Destiny in my opinion. Have there been some good books in the last four years? I would say absolutely! but none of them have been standouts that make me feel like I can't wait for the next release to come out. It's a pretty mixed bag these days and not as consistently high as it was before Destiny. I do need to qualify that by saying I would make an exception with the Voyager, DTI and Vanguard novels, which have been very good stories.

I really hate the way the DS9 relaunch was treated as it was an excellent series but the DS9 books in the Typhon Pact series are lacking something (inner cohesion?). The Titan series started off well but has really taken a decline and I think the potential for the series is not being lived up to. The TOS books have been pretty awful for the most part and laborious to read (I really wish Pocket could have released the Abramsverse novels). The Enterprise novels started out well but the last couple? Bleh! And New Frontier seems like it's now gone and although it was inconsistent at least Peter David made it fun and I looked forward to each new book in the series. And the Shattered Universe and Mirror Universe books were fun distractions but nothing more.

Anyway, I would like to see Pocket transition a new generation of Trek authors into the line. I think many of the Trek authors have some good stories to tell and possibly even some great stories to tell but maybe they should be working on original material and leave Trek to the "next generation"?

Kevin
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Old October 19 2012, 01:38 AM   #34
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

It took me a month to read Paths of Disharmony because of rl distractions and may try a reread when things get more "normal.". PoN and RtD were stupendous and I am hoping to get to Brinkmanship next.

Loved Beyer's turn with Voyager and feel like she's really rejuvenated the Voyager book line!

I take breathers here and there but find that going away too long makes it harder to get back into it. I feel too pressured to catch up.
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Old October 19 2012, 07:20 PM   #35
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Ktrek wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I'd have to disagree. Yeah, the last few books since Destiny haven't been quite as good as they were before and leading up to Destiny, but I would still rate them overall as very good, and would be very upset if they rebooted with new writers. Honestly, overall I'd say that what we are getting in Trek lit is the best Trek we've gotten since DS9 ended. I say that a big fan of both Voyager and Enterprise.
Of course you're free to disagree with my opinion but to say "the last few books since Destiny haven't been quite as good" is an understatement. For one thing the word "few" in the context is incomprehensible. It has been almost four years since Destiny and there have been several dozen books released and none of them have been as good as the books leading up to and including Destiny in my opinion. Have there been some good books in the last four years? I would say absolutely! but none of them have been standouts that make me feel like I can't wait for the next release to come out. It's a pretty mixed bag these days and not as consistently high as it was before Destiny. I do need to qualify that by saying I would make an exception with the Voyager, DTI and Vanguard novels, which have been very good stories.

I really hate the way the DS9 relaunch was treated as it was an excellent series but the DS9 books in the Typhon Pact series are lacking something (inner cohesion?). The Titan series started off well but has really taken a decline and I think the potential for the series is not being lived up to. The TOS books have been pretty awful for the most part and laborious to read (I really wish Pocket could have released the Abramsverse novels). The Enterprise novels started out well but the last couple? Bleh! And New Frontier seems like it's now gone and although it was inconsistent at least Peter David made it fun and I looked forward to each new book in the series. And the Shattered Universe and Mirror Universe books were fun distractions but nothing more.

Anyway, I would like to see Pocket transition a new generation of Trek authors into the line. I think many of the Trek authors have some good stories to tell and possibly even some great stories to tell but maybe they should be working on original material and leave Trek to the "next generation"?

Kevin
I have to disagree - not all of the novels leading up to Destiny were great, and although I quite liked Destiny (and it did drag me back to Treklit after a lengthy break), Destiny wasn't imho the the masterpiece it seems to be credited as on here.

Since Destiny there have been some poor entries (Zero Sum Game, Seize The Fire) and many more great novels - The Never Ending Sacrifice, A Singular Destiny and David R. George III's three Typhon Pact novels to name but a few...
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Old October 19 2012, 09:06 PM   #36
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Ktrek has a point, I'm sad to say.

Destiny *is* the masterpiece it's supposedly made to be IMHO, but excluding that trilogy, Vanguard, Voyager and select few novels, the overall quality has been a bit down, compared to the offerings of the early-to-mid 2000's.

I don't think an influx of new writers is THE solution (as it seems it's happening constantly and on an ongoing basis anyway), but rather new concepts and series.

As I've written before, we need a new, original (non-TV) series to take the place of Vanguard and (the sadly way past its prime IMO) New Frontier .
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Old October 19 2012, 09:45 PM   #37
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

A quarter of the way through Raise the Dawn, interesting ideas but, for this reader, pacing really kills it
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Old October 20 2012, 01:02 AM   #38
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

RonG wrote: View Post
Ktrek has a point, I'm sad to say.

Destiny *is* the masterpiece it's supposedly made to be IMHO, but excluding that trilogy, Vanguard, Voyager , and select few novels, the overall quality has been a bit down, compared to the offerings of the early-to-mid 2000's.
Since I like lists, let's go ahead and see what novels have been published since Destiny finished four years ago.
  • TOS: Errand of Fury: Sacrifices of War by Kevin Ryan * * *
  • MU: Shards and Shadows (anthology) #
  • ST: A Singular Destiny by Keith R.A. DeCandido * * * *
  • TTN: Over a Torrent Sea by Christopher L. Bennett * * *
  • VOY: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer * * * * *
  • NF: Treason by Peter David #
  • NuTOS: Star Trek by Alan Dean Foster #
  • VAN: Open Secrets by Dayton Ward * * * *
  • TOS: Troublesome Minds by Dave Galanter #
  • TNG: Losing the Peace by William Leisner * * * *
  • DSN: The Soul Key by Olivia Woods #
  • DSN: The Never-Ending Sacrifice by Una McCormack * * * * *
  • ENT: The Romluan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing by Michael A. Martin * * 1/2
  • VOY: Unworthy by Kirsten Beyer +
  • TTN: Synthesis by James Swallow #
  • VAN: Precipice by David Mack * * * *
  • MU: The Sorrows of Empire by David Mack * * * * *
  • TOS: Inception by S.D. Perry & Britta Dennison * * *
  • ST: Seven Deadly Sins (anthology) #
  • TOS: Unspoken Truth by Margaret Wander Bonanno * * * *
  • STO: The Needs of the Many by Michael A. Martin * 1/2
  • TOS: The Children of Kings by Dave Stern * * *
  • TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack * * * * *
  • TP: Seize the Fire by Michael A. Martin #
  • MyU: Shattered Light (anthology) * * * *
  • TP: Rough Beasts of Empire by David R. George III * * * * *
  • TP: Paths of Disharmony by Dayton Ward * * * *
  • TNG: Indistinguishable from Magic by David McIntee * * * *
  • NF: Blind Man's Bluff by Peter David #
  • DTI: Watching the Clock by Christopher L. Bennett * * * *
  • VOY: Children of the Storm by Kirsten Beyer +
  • VAN: Declassified (anthology) * * * *
  • ST: Cast No Shadow by James Swallow * * * *
  • TOS: A Choice of Catastrophes by Steve Mollmann & Michael Schuster #
  • VAN: What Judgments Come by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore * * * *
  • TP: The Struggle Within by Christopher L. Bennett * * * *
  • ENT: The Romulan War: To Brave the Storm by Michael A. Martin * * 1/2
  • MU: Rise Like Lions by David Mack * * * *
  • TOS: The Rings of Time by Greg Cox #
  • TOS: That Which Divides by Dayton Ward #
  • VAN: Storming Heaven by David Mack +
  • DTI: Forgotten History by Christopher L. Bennett * * * *
  • TP: Plagues of Night by David R. George III * * * * *
  • TP: Raise the Dawn by David R. George III * * * * *
  • TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin * * 1/2
  • VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer +
  • TP: Brinkmanship by Una McCormack * * * * *
That's 51 novels published since Destiny.

Now, I've marked the ones I think were deserving of 4 or 5 stars that I've read -- * for a 4-star, ** for a 5-star, and @ for a three-star. I've marked with a + those novels which I know are widely well-regarded, even if I haven't read them yet.

(Edit: Replaced the above with the actual number of stars for each book. "+" remains for well-regarded books I haven't read. Inserted "#" for other books I haven't read yet. End edit.)

So, out of 51, the total number of books that I think are either worth four or five stars or which I know to be well-regarded, is 27: 8 five-stars, 15 four-stars, and 4 well-regardeds. That's a 52.94% success rate (15.69% five-stars, 29.41% four-stars, 7.84% well-regardeds). The total number of books that are three stars or higher or well-regarded is 31 -- a 60.78% success rate.

Soooo..... I gotta say, I don't think the book line post-Destiny has been inferior. I think that most of the time, they're fun; more often than not, they're above average; and that around a fifth of the time, they knock it out of the park. And that's pretty much what I thought of the line pre-Destiny. Yeah, Destiny was amazing, but so was Articles of the Federation; so was A Time to Kill/Heal; so was Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind; so was Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers; so was Crucible: McCoy - Provenance of Shadows; so was TNG: The Buried Age; so was S.C.E.: Wildfire; so was DSN: Hollow Men; so was Serpents Among the Ruins; so was The Art of the Impossible; etc etc etc.

I think there's a tendency to be so blinded by the quality of Destiny as to forget that it is not the beginning and the end, nor the apex, of Star Trek fiction, and to forget that there were a lot of really brilliant books published before Destiny and have been a lot of brilliant books published since Destiny.


but excluding that trilogy, Vanguard, Voyager
For the record, post-Destiny, that's 9 books: Full Circle, Open Secrets, Unworthy, Precipice, Children of the Storm, Declassified, What Judgments Come, Storming Heaven, and The Eternal Tide. That's quite a few exceptions to the trend you're arguing exists.

I don't think an influx of new writers is THE solution (as it seems it's happening constantly and on an ongoing basis anyway), but rather new concepts and series.
I am at a loss as to how one might describe the creation of the Typhon Pact, the launch of the Department of Temporal Investigations series, the publication of novels taking the story of the Mirror Universe forward and uniting them with the unique spin on Emperor Spock vis a vis Memory Omega, the continued publication of Myriad Universes anthologies, a willingness to so fundamentally shake up the status quo as we've seen in David R. George's novels, etc.... I really don't see how that could be described as anything except new concepts and new series.
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Old October 20 2012, 01:56 AM   #39
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Three stars for Inception? It was a turd and I'm pretty sure it was widely regarded as a turd.
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Old October 20 2012, 02:11 AM   #40
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Three stars for Inception? It was a turd and I'm pretty sure it was widely regarded as a turd.
I liked it. I didn't think it was brilliant, but I thought it was an enjoyable, if sappy, book.
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Old October 20 2012, 02:17 AM   #41
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Sci wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Three stars for Inception? It was a turd and I'm pretty sure it was widely regarded as a turd.
I liked it. I didn't think it was brilliant, but I thought it was an enjoyable, if sappy, book.
Different strokes for different folks.

But if I had to start a fire to keep warm, the first thing I'd burn would be Inception.
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Old October 20 2012, 02:25 AM   #42
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Three stars for Inception? It was a turd and I'm pretty sure it was widely regarded as a turd.
I liked it. I didn't think it was brilliant, but I thought it was an enjoyable, if sappy, book.
Different strokes for different folks.

But if I had to start a fire to keep warm, the first thing I'd burn would be Inception.
That is completely unfair. Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many worked hard to earn its status as kindling, goddamnit.
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Old October 20 2012, 02:40 AM   #43
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Sci wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

I liked it. I didn't think it was brilliant, but I thought it was an enjoyable, if sappy, book.
Different strokes for different folks.

But if I had to start a fire to keep warm, the first thing I'd burn would be Inception.
That is completely unfair. Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many worked hard to earn its status as kindling, goddamnit.
Oh, it's right near the top as far as potential kindling goes. Along with the Enterprise: The Romulan War books.
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Old October 20 2012, 05:33 AM   #44
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

Different Strokes indeed, Sci. First of all, I must say that you raise great points and perhaps Destiny blinds us (a cool tagline ), but I also disagree with some of your choices for 4/5 novels..
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Old October 20 2012, 08:24 AM   #45
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Re: Typhon Pact: Should I keep going?

RonG wrote: View Post
Different Strokes indeed, Sci. First of all, I must say that you raise great points and perhaps Destiny blinds us (a cool tagline ), but I also disagree with some of your choices for 4/5 novels..
Oh, I'm sure. For instance, I liked Rough Beasts of Empire much more than most readers did, apparently. But I strongly suspect that if most of us were to sit down and look at the list of novels published in, say, the 8 years before Destiny, and at the list of novels published in the 4 years since Destiny, we'd find that roughly the same proportion of each list is and is not to our liking (whatever that proportion might be in your particular instance).
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