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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 11 2012, 03:30 PM   #16
Timo
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Plus, there are human telepaths, too - or at least humans with recognized supernatural abilities ("Where No Man", "Is There In Truth").

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Old October 11 2012, 06:15 PM   #17
T'Girl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Tasha: I'm certain I can disable their ship with a phaser burst Captain.
Picard: And then Lieutenant?
Tasha: "Gee, I don't know Captain. Maybe we could tow the fucking plague ship away from that uninfected planet over there. You think?"

Picard: "Don't be silly Lt. Yar, first we'll allow them within transporter range, and only after that happens, we'll block their transporter with our tractor beam."

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Old October 11 2012, 11:48 PM   #18
Grey
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

I just watched this episode. I actually really enjoyed it.

But that was because prior to that, I had watched Hide and "Q".

Usually, I'm a very nit-picky person. I'm one of those people who just loves tearing things up and can never accept things as they are. But I gave up with Star Trek because my head was starting to hurt with all the facepalms. Now all those little inconsistencies don't bother me at all. Mostly.
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Old October 12 2012, 08:05 AM   #19
MikeS
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Another thing. I cannot read this episodes title without thinking "shaven".
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Old October 12 2012, 08:22 AM   #20
Timo
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Tasha: "Gee, I don't know Captain. Maybe we could tow the fucking plague ship away from that uninfected planet over there. You think?"
I'm not sure I understand the objection here.

Firing at the ship was obviously unnecessary, as the tractor beam could handle the stopping easily enough. This fact would not have been unknown to Yar. Tractoring was always an option, but preceding it with warning messages was prudent. Preceding it with warning shots would have been rather unnecessary, I'd think, as it had been confirmed the Tarellians knew they were not welcome and were being met with a superior force, and still weren't turning back.

What Yar was doing was saying "Captain, we can do what Electorine Valeda is asking", that is, using weapons fire as the method of stopping the plague ship, and Picard was asking Yar to consider that this would have unnecessary consequences. Disabling with phasers was the Havenite solution, neither here nor there; destroying with phasers would have been the Alcyone solution. Picard told Yar to stick to the Starfleet solution.

"first we'll allow them within transporter range, and only after that happens, we'll block their transporter with our tractor beam."
It doesn't seem as if the tractor beam would prevent transporting. After all, Wyatt Miller beams over easily enough!

Rather, it seems our heroes just yanked the Tarellian ship back from within transporter range to outside it...

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Old October 12 2012, 12:38 PM   #21
Jeyl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Timo wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I understand the objection here.
Tasha Yar, the character who controls the tractor beam, doesn't consider using the tractor beam. This is the writers making the character act like an idiot so that they can make Picard look good. Unfortunately, as I've said above, Picard is himself an idiot in this scene because while he planned to use the tractor beam the whole time, he doesn't tell ANYONE about it. Not Haven, not Yar, nobody.

Tell me, how is Picard not telling anyone, including the planet that's at risk, that he does have a plan to prevent the ship from getting into range beneficial? This isn't a time of war, nobody is listening in, yet Picard doesn't give anyone any sense of reassurance that he's on top of everything. SFDebris said it best.

"Well, with no time left Picard orders a tractor beam which easily stops them. So you just decided to keep that info to yourself Picard, huh? Build up all this false tension? You didn't even let Tasha in on it. We all kind of assume with you NOT MENTIONING IT whenever the situation came up that you had no other options but violence, that you were looking for all these different ideas. Riker saying "I'm going to go reflect upon the situation" and all that when the answer was tractor beam the whole time. Just when the administer calls begging you to shoot them to save her, you never told her "Don't worry. My tractor beam will stop them" you kept acting like it was the only solution and that you weren't going to do it so that she and the rest of Haven should start distributing cyanide tablets to avoid a gruesome death that they would otherwise face. You're like Batman having an anti-Joker spray in your utility belt and acting like you're not sure how you're going to stop him before he blows up a skyscraper, only to arrive, spray him once and call it a day."
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Old October 12 2012, 01:02 PM   #22
Timo
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Tasha Yar, the character who controls the tractor beam, doesn't consider using the tractor beam.
She doesn't "unconsider" it in any way, either. She just says that a planetary leader's recent request could be accommodated without any inconvenience.

Tell me, how is Picard not telling anyone, including the planet that's at risk, that he does have a plan to prevent the ship from getting into range beneficial?
What an odd idea. Why should anybody assume he lacks a plan? Is it a reasonable assumption that Starfleet doesn't know how to stop a vessel, has never done it before, and will not be able to do it now, either?

Our heroes may sometimes have to explain themselves to the other characters and/or to the audience. But explaining something this routine and self-evident? Doesn't wash.

Essentially, you are asking for a Star Trek hero to explain that he has the ability to stop an attacker by using this clever invention called phaser, or the ability to tell what species the attacker is by using this device known as tricorder, or the ability to reach a planetary surface using a transporter or a shuttlecraft. No such explanations should ever be necessary. And failing to waste everybody's time with them is not "secrecy".

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Old October 12 2012, 08:45 PM   #23
inflatabledalek
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

My deep dark secret: I like Laxwana. I think she's funny.



I am a sick, sick, sick man. Pity me.


The rest of the episode is a bit forgettable though, and it's lucky for Wyatt that he's going to live with the sexiest plague victims in history.
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Old October 12 2012, 09:33 PM   #24
erastus25
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

I'm going to contend that Troi was also terrible in DS9, contrary to the assertion at the beginning of the original review. For instance, Fascination...
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Old October 12 2012, 10:06 PM   #25
Captrek
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

^ I consider it more an opinion than an assertion. Your opinion is probably shared by more Niners than mine. I agree with the popular opinion that the episodes in which she appears are not good episodes but I find the Lwaxana-Odo relationship to be a bright spot in episodes that are otherwise not so bright.
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Old October 12 2012, 11:10 PM   #26
Jeyl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Timo wrote: View Post
Essentially, you are asking for a Star Trek hero to explain that he has the ability to stop an attacker by using this clever invention called phaser, or the ability to tell what species the attacker is by using this device known as tricorder, or the ability to reach a planetary surface using a transporter or a shuttlecraft. No such explanations should ever be necessary. And failing to waste everybody's time with them is not "secrecy".
Wasting everybody's time, you say? Let me try to rewrite the scene to fix that.

Yar: The ship is just 30 seconds away from coming into range of our Tractor beam range sir.
Picard: Do you detect anything on that vessel that may cause problems with the beam?
Tasha: None that I can detect. But If there are problems, I'm certain I can disable their ship with a phaser burst Captain.
Picard: Very well. Stand by tractor beam.

There. I just made everyone sound competent, in control and ahead of their game. Picard wants to tractor the ship as soon as possible, Yar is prepared just incase the beam doesn't work, and Picard trusts her combat abilities enough should the situation become require aggressive measures.

A good Captain should always fill his crew in on things even if they are obvious. If they were simply throwing trash away, maybe there could be room for Picard to act this way, but this is a planetary crises. You should have the crew alerted and aware of every option available to them, especially the ones who clearly don't think of it.

Last edited by Jeyl; October 12 2012 at 11:22 PM.
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Old October 13 2012, 07:29 PM   #27
T'Girl
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

Timo wrote: View Post
Firing at the ship was obviously unnecessary, as the tractor beam could handle the stopping easily enough.
So could firing on the engines. Remember in the Star Trek universe, usually when the engines stop - so does the ship.

Disabling the engines is a one time action. Stopping the ship with a tractor beam requires a ongoing effort, you discontinue the beam and the ship heads again towards the planet.

Tasha's advice involve the least time and effort on the part of the Enterprise.

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Tasha Yar, the character who controls the tractor beam, doesn't consider using the tractor beam. This is the writers making the character act like an idiot ...
Tasha was meant (imho) to sound practical and proactive. Her's was to be the voice action, not diplomacy.

Picard could then be seen to be diplomatic and "let's not rush."

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Old October 13 2012, 08:01 PM   #28
Timo
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Re: Episode of the Week: Haven

The problem with Yar's proposal is indeed "Then what?".

Stopping the plague ship with a tractor beam leaves her intact to depart and travel to other destinations, such as an assigned safe quarantine area. Stopping the plague ship with a phaser leaves her stranded on orbit around Haven! Talk about ongoing effort...

Really, the idea that Yar, or Worf, or Data, would be unaware of the potential of the tractor beam is... Insulting. And if Picard reminded them of the beam's existence, he'd appear condescending. There's absolutely no need for Picard to "bring the crew up to speed" on any "plans" of his, unless one wants to emphasize the unprofessionalism of said crew.

Of course, Picard could just say "Tractor beam stand by" to the benefit of the audience. But he doesn't need to.

As for only acting in the nick of time, well, it's not as if there was harm done. Picard just gave the Tarellians the chance to turn back or otherwise respond to his ultimatums without escalating the situation. Haven knows these people would be desperate enough without extra harassing!

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