TOS Revisited - New Revelations

[Green Shirt]

Mr. Spook wrote:

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That actually sounds more like "Where No Man Has Gone Before." The "Charlie" in the title hints at "Charlie X" but Gary Mitchell could have easily been Charlie Mitchell early on. Notice the premise says nothing about an adolescent, but "a very finite man." Was Sam Peeples working off a Roddenberry story idea? Did he read Gene's series outline and pick a premise that sounded most interesting? Or was WMNHGB totally original and this really is "Charlie X?"

Just putting it out there.

Plus, the "accidental occurrence" part does seem to fit WNMHGB better since the Thasians deliberately gave Charlie his power to help him survive.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's "Charlie X," but it's also true that there's no real difference in the premises of the two episodes - none at all.

[Harvey]

Oh, there's a little difference between the two (Charlie is an adolescent, and an unknown to the crew; Mitchell is an adult, and has an established relationship with the crew, especially Kirk), but they're undeniably similar.

[Maurice]

To be fair, those are particulars, not the premise.

[Harvey]

Fair as always, Maurice.

[JimZipCode]

Mutai Sho-Rin wrote:

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Yesterday, I carefully watched Mantrap and Charlie X and came to some interesting conclusions.
1. Shatner isn't as bad as I remembered, at least not in these two eps.

Shatner is uniformly terrific in early season 1. He's the viewpoint character, and he really carries the show, during the period before they fully flesh out Spock's character and before they establish the Bones banter.

I think Shatner's early excellence is often forgotten by fans because of the direction he went in later – he starts doing his readings in a really broad way, sometimes using Spock & McCoy as straight men. This is very much true in the movies, also true in some of s3. A lot of fans hate his performance in Turnabout Intruder. Ok: but Shatner is serious business in s1, and he's a badass. It's almost a different show in s1, given the focus on Shatner and his intensity.

[Timewalker]

Coincidentally, I'm currently reading some fanfic dealing with Kirk's psychological issues in the aftermath of "Turnabout Intruder." Quite interesting take on it.

From what I read in the book Star Trek Lives!, Shatner was quite ill during the week they filmed "Turnabout Intruder." That could have had some negative effect on his performance, but there were parts that were just stupid - like filing his/Janice's nails on the bridge, going over the top with his notion of "feminine" gestures and speech, etc. The actress was much better at playing Kirk than Shatner was at playing Janice.

[Grant]

JimZipCode wrote:

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Shatner is uniformly terrific in early season 1. He's the viewpoint character, and he really carries the show, during the period before they fully flesh out Spock's character and before they establish the Bones banter.

I think Shatner's early excellence is often forgotten by fans because of the direction he went in later – he starts doing his readings in a really broad way, sometimes using Spock & McCoy as straight men. This is very much true in the movies, also true in some of s3. A lot of fans hate his performance in Turnabout Intruder. Ok: but Shatner is serious business in s1, and he's a badass. It's almost a different show in s1, given the focus on Shatner and his intensity.

i watch the episodes in order and every time I roll back around to season 1, I am re-reminded how great Shatner was in the first season. Besides the "I want to live." alternate evil Kirk-I can't think of too many over the top moments.

He is nearly perfect in first half of the season and right up until 'This side of Paradise'

He then, in the last few episodes Devil, Errand, City, starts to relax just a bit too much. His banter with Spock, more than McCoy in those last few episodes, becomes a little too playful and jokey in some places, but still really solid.

I think if the series had been cancelled after season1 or if Shatner had been hit by a truck (like edith ) he would have been remebered as a terrific actor instead of the parody of himself he slowly but surely became.

I wish the writers, directors or Roddenberry could have said, "pull it back to a slightly more serious tone" and TOS wouldn't be laced with those roll your eyes acting moments.

I almost think if TOS had been cancelled sooner--it would ironically have been remebered more fondly and held in higher esteem.

No Spock's Brain, no Spock riding Kirk like a pony, no Kirk trying to act like a 'female', no pounding his fists on the ground as 'Garth', no reciting/reading the US constitution, no nonsense from I, Mudd, etc.

As a fan I can enjoy those moments somewhat but they once you go down those paths--you can never come all the way back.

Look at the movies, progressivly less serious until TFF falls on its face trying to be funny and they try to pull it back for TUC, but they still felt compelled to have the idiotic book translation scene and Chekov as a doof instead of a competant officer.


long live season 1

[SchwEnt]

Yeah, it's true about Shatner's acting early Season One. Top notch. All those early eps, really... very dramatic, theatrical, and quite deadly serious drama. Very little light-heartedness. I get the sense that they were making a serious dramatic program about these people and their jobs and oh yeah, it happens to be in space in the future.

It's only later on in the series do we see Shatner lighten up. And of course, then came in the adventure and fun which is a large part of TOS appeal.

But sometimes, I still would have liked to see more eps played in the more serious dramatic tone of those early Season One eps.

[plynch]

You're noticing the Gene Coon shift, as much as any Shatner-acting shift.

[JimZipCode]

Timewalker wrote:

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Shatner was quite ill during the week they filmed "Turnabout Intruder." That could have had some negative effect on his performance, but there were parts that were just stupid - like filing his/Janice's nails on the bridge, going over the top with his notion of "feminine" gestures and speech, etc.

I disagree with most about Shatner's performance in TI, I feel like he was doing effective visual shorthand, like you might see from a stage actor at the time. More on that episode here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...2&postcount=26

[BillJ]

JimZipCode wrote:

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I disagree with most about Shatner's performance in TI, I feel like he was doing effective visual shorthand, like you might see from a stage actor at the time. More on that episode here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...2&postcount=26

I always liked Shatner's performance in this episode. He played mental breakdown well.

[RAMA]

Mutai Sho-Rin wrote:

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Uhura - noted and fixed.

Streaming only, gave up DVDs and switched to Streaming with this Blu-Ray box.

If these are the re-mastered discs, many of the effects are highly improved from the original airing.

indeed they are

[Myko]

It seems plausible that both Peeples and Fontana based their stories around that pitch idea by Roddenberry.

[ssosmcin]

Grant wrote:

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I wish the writers, directors or Roddenberry could have said, "pull it back to a slightly more serious tone" and TOS wouldn't be laced with those roll your eyes acting moments.

A lot of what makes the second season great to me is the familiarity and banter between the characters. Shatner didn't really go sailing over the top regularly until the third season when bad directors failed to keep him in check.

Grant wrote:

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I almost think if TOS had been cancelled sooner--it would ironically have been remebered more fondly and held in higher esteem.

When wasn't Trek fondly remembered? It was "the show that would not die," which never left the air after it entered syndication. It became the template for every SF tv series in the 70's (until Star Wars came out), the comparison they had to live up to ("will Space: 1999 inherit the Star Trek crown?" "it lacks the personalities of Star Trek..." etc).

It was already held in high esteem. The third season didn't drag it down, in fact much of the third season provided concepts and character which were greatly loved by fans, especially in the 70's.

It survived quite well with three seasons and I'm happy to have even the crummy episodes. Yes, indeedy.

The only time I remember TOS getting dissed was when TNG was at its peak. Then TNG went away and the original series regained respect. It's a fickle public.