Firefly/Serenity

[BillJ]

Like the series, thought the movie was rubbish. I revisit an episode from time-to-time but the ride is over, I'm not really interested in new material.

[Rhaven]

teacock wrote:

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If Firefly could get cancelled nothing is safe.

Sadly, that's the lesson I learned.

Isn't that the truth!

I too, own the box set and the movie. Tonight just may need some Serenity, hmmmm.

[kirk55555]

I didn't see Firefly when it came out. A few years ago I actually caught Serenity on TV (the Sci-Fi channel, I think). I liked it, but I didn't realise it was connected to a TV show at first. I evenbtually got the DVD of the show from the public library, and I loved it immediately. The show and the movie are just great, its easily one of my top 3 sci fi franchises, I really wish it had gotten more than 13 episodes and 1 movie.

[KalEl]

Kegg wrote:

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Pretty sure Fox doesn't have the same executives anymore, and also Cleveland Show has got to be substantially cheaper to make.

But yeah Firefly is a good series, and while I did catch its premiere, I didn't stick with it back when it was on its first run (frankly didn't care for it). Revised my opinion since then, it's definitely one of tbe best space opera shows of the past couple of decades, however abrupt its lifespan.

I don't think it really matters who's at Fox, I just think, historically, they make a lot of bad choices especially in the past 10 years. I'm sure animation and reality shows are cheaper, but the quality is horrible. It not just Fox, but they have probably the worst record for canceling good shows. TV in general has gone extremely down hill and people see it and talk about it every day, hell, they made a South Park episode last week discussing this problem, but like all other problems in America, we just ignore it and hope eventually it will resolve itself. The current trend tells me that we are going to see it get worse before it gets better and shows like Firefly or BSG or anything worth a dam will stand less and less of a chance. Just my opinion.

[DigificWriter]

This will probably sound to some like A) the ramblings of a Joss Whedon apologist or B) crazy conspiracy talk, but, as far as I'm concerned, there is only one reason Firefly didn't succeed, and it isn't the timeslot, the ratings, or even the decision to air the original pilot episode last. The reason Firefly didn't last is greed. The people in charge of FOX at the time were so desperate for a Joss Whedon show that they commissioned on a project that they really didn't 'get', and then used the ratings as an excuse to pull the plug on said project when it didn't immediately succeed the way they wanted it to.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Loved the series, loved the movie.

[Gaith]

DigificWriter wrote:

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This will probably sound to some like A) the ramblings of a Joss Whedon apologist or B) crazy conspiracy talk, but, as far as I'm concerned, there is only one reason Firefly didn't succeed, and it isn't the timeslot, the ratings, or even the decision to air the original pilot episode last. The reason Firefly didn't last is greed. The people in charge of FOX at the time were so desperate for a Joss Whedon show that they commissioned on a project that they really didn't 'get', and then used the ratings as an excuse to pull the plug on said project when it didn't immediately succeed the way they wanted it to.

Again, I gotta ask: what makes you think the viewing public ever could have been large enough to sustain the show?

I mean, I would have loved to see the other four seasons of Carnivale, but I freely acknowledge that it was a highly obscure show that required very high budgets, and I certainly don't keep railing against the execs that canned it nearly a decade later.

Lots of good TV series are cut off before their time, and everyone has shows and movies they wish had gained wider audiences. But the unceasing howling of many Firefly fans makes me wonder if they aren't subconsciously compensating for something - say, a nagging feeling that, despite its tremendous stylistic appeal to some, the show really wasn't that good - the writing was glib, the characters thin, and the larger storytelling context practically nonexistent.

[DigificWriter]

^ The execs at FOX greenlit Firefly because they wanted another Joss Whedon show. They didn't understand the premise of the series when Joss pitched it to them, but greenlit it anyway. They were expecting his name alone to get them ratings, and when that didn't happen, they used the ratings as an excuse to get rid of their 'greed-fueled misstep'.

There's no guarantee that the series would've succeeded and been longer-lasting if it had aired on a network other than FOX, but the execs who were there at the time had no business greenlighting the series in the first place.

[Kegg]

KalEl wrote:

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It not just Fox, but they have probably the worst record for canceling good shows.

The converse of this statement is that Fox has an good record for greenlighting good shows. I can't think of any programs from the American CW or CBS offhand that I'd be interested in watching.

TV in general has gone extremely down hill

Some TV series that are currently running that I watch when I can:
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Homeland, Boardwalk Empire.

There's an argument that the since the last decade we've entered a golden age of television (with since concluded shows like the Sopranos and the Wire being chief among these). I thnk it's a pretty tenable argument.

[teacake]

A golden age of television but not a golden age of science fiction. Not that there hasn't been some greats, BSG.. but it's sparse and the axe constantly falls.

[DWF]

DigificWriter wrote:

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^ The execs at FOX greenlit Firefly because they wanted another Joss Whedon show. They didn't understand the premise of the series when Joss pitched it to them, but greenlit it anyway. They were expecting his name alone to get them ratings, and when that didn't happen, they used the ratings as an excuse to get rid of their 'greed-fueled misstep'.

There's no guarantee that the series would've succeeded and been longer-lasting if it had aired on a network other than FOX, but the execs who were there at the time had no business greenlighting the series in the first place.

Joss was under contract to produce new series for Fox and all Fox did was ot buy one of his series. He was given plenty of money to make the series and it got cancelled because it failed to produce the ratings needed to survive. IT should be noted that John Doe the show on right after Firefly had double Firefly's ratings and was also cancelled.

[Kegg]

^
And lord knows there were some very upset John Doe fans at the time. I have no idea if there are still John Doe fans, though.

teacock wrote:

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A golden age of television but not a golden age of science fiction.

True enough. I'd agree that the 1990s were a much better decade for sci-fi TV, and that one of the best sci-fi shows of the last decade is one that only lasted fourteen episodes says something about the health of the genre.

Although Farscape had most of its seasons in the 2000s, so there is that.

[Sindatur]

Kegg wrote:

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^
And lord knows there were some very upset John Doe fans at the time. I have no idea if there are still John Doe fans, though.

True enough. I'd agree that the 1990s were a much better decade for sci-fi TV, and that one of the best sci-fi shows of the last decade is one that only lasted fourteen episodes says something about the health of the genre.

Although Farscape had most of its seasons in the 2000s, so there is that.

I've recently finished Andromeda S1, and I think it's pretty damned good overall (Yes, I realize depending upon who you talk to, it falls apart anywhere from S1 - S4, just like popular opinion seems to be for Earth:Final COnflict, but, I'll deal with that when I get there). But, S1, and the few S2 episodes I've seen are pretty good.

[kirk55555]

I don't know what to say about tV in general, really. The only shows that still produce new episodes that I watch on a regular basis are: Pawn Stars, Family Guy, South Park, Big bang theory, Young Justice and Arrow (it just started, and my interest may not last, but I'm liking it so far). Two other shows I really liked ended recently (Eureka and House), and Smallville ended last year (although I was really bad about following it the last 2 seasons, I pretty much just watched them on dVD). I just don't see anything else really interesting. Most of the stuff I watch besides what I listed is old stuff, or stuff I like but don't follow every week (like warehouse 13 and resturant Impossible). I'm a nerd, so my tastes are different than the average viewer (Sci Fi and superhero shows/cartoons are some of my favorite stuff), and to me most new TV just isn't interesting. The ninties/early 2000's were great, now there isn't a lot for me to watch. I really don't want to see a show about Hal from Malcom in the Middle as a drug dealer, or a show about 1960's advertising agents.

There are some good shows, but overall TV today is definately inferior to what it was years ago. I sound like some old guy complaining about the kids today (I'm 21).

[Gaith]

kirk55555 wrote:

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There are some good shows, but overall TV today is definately inferior to what it was years ago. I sound like some old guy complaining about the kids today (I'm 21).

No, it's less to your tastes. Yes, there is a difference.