Futureproofing (for viewing) the next Trek TV series

[jefferiestubes8]

AviTrek wrote:

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The most important thing to do in order to future proof a series is to get the series made in the first place. That means keeping the budget under control

AviTrek I think you are approaching this thread with a specific agenda.
I am talking about once a show is greenlit and say a TV network has agreed to a 13 or 26 episode order.
TPTB saved all of the TV series original camera negatives and now it is paying off for TNG-R.
This thread is a hypothetical type of thread that deals with when a scenario is already in play.

100 episodes in HD is a lot more future proof than 13 episodes in 3D at 4K.

Since season 4 of ENT shot in HD they won't be going back to shooting film since almost all TV episodics are shot in HD now.
Since we all know that there is a built-in Trek fanbase that will buy Trek product if it is a 2-season show or a 7-season show we are takling about futureproofing it beyond one generation of home video release and the first HD broadcast.

[jefferiestubes8]

Why not scan every set using this?

The Chattanooga Police Department is the first in Tennessee to get a Leica Geosystems ScanStation C10, which uses cameras and lasers to reproduce a crime scene on a screen in three dimensions.
Assistant Police Chief Tim Carroll told the Chattanooga Times Free Press that “instead of just seeing a picture of a bullet hole and then looking at a floor plan to see where the bullet hit, you can go in the house, turn a corner, and see the bullet right there in the wall.” (http://bit.ly/uFjpq6)
It isn’t like a 3D movie, where the images pop out from the screen, but it does allow the viewer — with the click of a mouse — to jump to any vantage point the scanner captured in its line of vision.

Carroll first spotted the ScanStation on a TV show: A&E’s “Crime 360,” which frequently features imaging pulled from scanners. By November 2010, the department had ordered two ScanStations, assigning one to the crime scene unit and the other to traffic investigations. Each cost the department $210,000 in grant money.
When the ScanStation is started, its laser travels over every square inch within a roughly 900-foot-diameter area, collecting 50,000 measurement points per second. Afterward, a built-in camera takes panoramic photos of the entire scene. The measurement data — called a “point cloud” — is matched with the pixels from the series of panoramic photos. The result is a color, three-dimensional rendition of the scene from which any linear measurement can be conducted with near precise accuracy.

http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2011/11/...ne-technology/
Could be used for home video special features or videogames or CGI sets for short scenes.

[jefferiestubes8]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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^ Why would we need to do that? 3D is a gimmick; HD is not.

Not everyone has, or wants, 3D.

Okay what about higher framerates?

Douglass Trumbull says:

Trumbull says in the interview he's pushing speeds of up to 120FPS. Why not higher? "I don't see right now any visible advantage to go even higher than 120 frames, I think that's about as much as the human eye can absorb."

TVs already running at higher framerates than 24FPS, but the sports world is already broadcasting at 60FPS.

as well as some documentaries. Part of the video-look that looks like you are looking through a window.

Most have probably had the "realistic" video experience at some point, maybe even on their home 120Hz TVs, but the jump from 24 to 48 was astounding. However, it was 60FPS that really made the scenes feel completely and utterly realistic

[James] Cameron confirmed that in order for theaters to be able to use/show 48 or 60FPS, all they would need is a software upgrade to any existing "Generation 2" projectors - those manufacturer in 2010 and beyond. So most digital cinemas are already capable of running these framrates, it's just a matter of making them the norm. Cameron emphasized that the future of projection is not yet pushing the resolution above and beyond 4K, but rather improving framerates and light output first.

As Cameron explained at one point, if watching 3D in cinemas is like looking through a window - making the jump to 60FPS was removing that window. And that was true and in cinema, not many have been able to see that yet. Just wait until you actually get that opportunity - your jaw will drop as well.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2011/cin...ema-at-60-fps/
If Trek shoots the next series pilot at 60fps it will be cutting edge for future releases.

[mos6507]

The way to futureproof the next TV series is to hire good writers.

If the writing is good, they won't care about cardboard sets or styrofoam rocks like you had in TOS. If the writing is bad, no amount of great special FX and HD cinematography will make it worth watching in 20 years.

[jefferiestubes8]

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

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Will they shoot it in 48 fps (frames per second) instead of the standard 24fps for enhanced clarity like Peter Jackson is using for "The Hobbit"? and James Cameron is planning on 48fps or 60fps for the next Avatar film.

Here is an excellent 5 minute video with Douglas Trumbull (who did 2001: A Space Odyssey Visual FX)

Video: Douglas Trumbull On Fast Frames Per Second

shows examples of 24,60,120 frames per second.

Now I see exactly why James Cameron may go 48 or 60fps. If this ends up the way to go I can see Trek producers going with state of the art shooting for future-proofing.

[Bry_Sinclair]

Trek TV in HD = Yes please!

Trek TV in 3D = Until 3D means actual three-dimensional holograms in my living room, I think I'll pass.

[jefferiestubes8]

While we all know 3-D is a gimmick to get people into the cinema and for the past 2 years to try to sell 3-D HDTVs the next tech specs for broadcast TVs have been recommended but not yet finalized.

The International Telecommunication Union (ITU) is meeting to set a standard on the formats.

UHDTV (Ultra High Definition Television) will be the name for both 4K and 8K transmissions when they eventually arrive, despite the megapixel count of the formats varying so widely.Currently, 4K is the format that many filmmakers are choosing to shoot in. James Cameron and Peter Jackson have both adopted the format and are currently tinkering with frame rates to make their shots look even more realistic.

ITU-R Study Group 6 has now agreed a draft new Recommendation on the technical details for ‘Ultra High Definition Television’ or UHDTV which is now being submitted to Administrations for approval.

Additionally, the ITU has added support for a much higher frame rate, 120 fps.

Ultra High Definition Television: Threshold of a new age

8K UHDTV is currently being tested by NHK & it is being used at the Olympics with 3 cameras in London. It is at Prototype-testing-phase in the development of the technology. Sure it's live sports but imagine the immersive experience at home on a wall-sized screen for dramatic TV series in 2025.

Keep in mind Sony already has a 8k sensor in their F65 - the next-generation CineAlta digital motion picture camera available this year. It can output 8k RAW capture now. 4k is the typical workflow the Sony F65 will be doing for feature films but it is capable of 8k. Give it a few years and maybe Trek will end up shooting in 8k and post production workflow in 4k UHDTV for a TV series!

Regarding the 8k projected tests this week in London of the Olympics:

if you take this view to its logical conclusion, a regular 42-inch HDTV would get pushed into a no man's land somewhere inbetween -- it's not portable, not immersive, and therefore not able to compete in the long-term. And that's why broadcasters' investment in 8K perhaps isn't so wild after all.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/31/s...-on/#continued

Yes the next Trek TV series may go into production around 2015 but looking down the road what futureproofing can producers do?

So while the next Trek series would most likely be produced in 4k due to the cost of 8K it looks like 8K is where things are headed after 2025. Think wall-sized TVs like in Back to the Future II (1989).

[RB_Kandy]

Well, I don't know much about the standards of movie recording and preserving, but an idea to make it future proof is to make the next series animated, or CGI animated. The reason is simple, if it gets cancelled and then revived 20 years later, you don't have to worry about the actors aging. In 10 years, there is no way you could ever bring back Jerry Ryan to do her roll as Seven Of Nine. And while males age more gracefully, beautiful males in TV shows typically are much older to begin with than the beautiful females. Also, if it were animated/CGI than if any actor died, quit, got fired, he/she could be replaced by someone with a very similar voice. We can easily identify different people by their appearance more so than by their voice, specifically because of the part of our brain that has facial recognition.

Any other future proofing I can think of is, write a good show that people actually want to see. Besides, what ever new gimmick comes out in 2050, will be an excuse to remaster something old and package it all over again instead of creating a whole new series. So remastering is a good sales gimmick. "See Kirk as you never seen him before, in 4D! And in neo color, with psycho-phonic sound!"

All attempts to upgrade and remaster something comes down to one principal only: high quality visual, high quality audio.
When you think about it, what technological feature have people always wanted out of their movies? high quality audio and visual. Give me a crisp colorful picture, and clear audio.

The only problem with a CGI series is, the cost would be outrageous, better to do animated.

[jefferiestubes8]

the International Telecommunication Union has finally approved the proposal.

The announcement makes no mention of the smaller 4K resolution included in the draft recommendation, instead highlighting 7680 x 4320 8K as the thrust of the standard along with a boost to 120fps and a wider color gamut.

NHK's 8K Ultra High Definition TV standard approved by ITU
via NHK (PDF)

Even though the next major successor to current HDTV technology will be the 4K standard, which is currently being used in many digital theaters, an even higher quality standard has just been approved: Ultra High Definition TV.

source

Looks like probably closer to 2015 it will start moving to 4k acquisition for most TV production.

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

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So while the next Trek series would most likely be produced in 4k due to the cost of 8K it looks like 8K is where things are headed after 2025.

[Mars]

Suddenly we have a standards war, forcing us to buy new televisions every few years, while my old style televisions are decades old yet they work just fine.

[Knight Templar]

Future proofing:

Some ideas

1) As far as stories, do NOT look at current issues for inspiration (like the LA riots for DS9 or street gangs for Voyagers Kazon). Look at great works of literature that has stood the test of time like Shakespeare for inspiration.

2) Avoid technobabble at all costs.

You can just say

"The engines are off line Captain!".

You don't have to say

"The transphasic inducers for the dilithium matrix pulse compression chamber have degraded by 86% Captain!"

[jefferiestubes8]

even now in 2012 with the TNG-R project retransfering the 35mm original camera negative to HD they are not planning for 4k.

TrekCore: When the film is played back through and captured digitally, what resolution is it captured at? One of the most popular questions we’ve had is ‘are you future-proofing for 4K resolution’?
Craig Weiss: No, at this point we are working in HD. If, in the future, there is a request to go back to 4K or something – at that time we’ll address it. We have – the most important thing – the time code of how the show was mastered, which has been the bulk of trying to figure this out. So we can go back and remaster the film in 4K. Due to just time and the schedule, there would be no way for us to be able to manage that kind of data for an HD release at this point. And nobody really knows what the specs for 4K are going to be, or for 4K televisions. So we decided we didn’t want to scan with today’s technology and then a year from now the specs might be different so we’d have to re-do it, so we decided to just stay within the specs for this Blu-Ray project.

At this point a 4k pipeline is only for major feature films. While I thought they would scan at 4k and archive that they aren't for cost and part of that cost is the media. there are no 4k tapes. only LTO-5 format data tapes would be removable but look at 11 years ago. The #1 rated TV drama CSI was mastered at 1080/60i.
Current film scanners can do 4k resolution but figure in 15 years film scanners will be doing 8k for restorations of major Hollywood films and the 35mm film scanning technology will be fully matured to 8k and somewhat better dynamic range and quality.
CBS Digital is preserving the 35mm film in case of a future project returning to scan at 4k or higher.

The [35mm film] boxes are pretty well intact. There is no real chemical [damage] or seepage – we’re not seeing much of that. The [35mm film] cans are a little bit crushed, the boxes are falling apart. We’re doing a level of triage to the elements where we’re restoring the packaging so that future generations – when they have to go back to the film – it’s in a better condition than we received it in.

from the Trekcore article.

I think that by the time the next Trek TV series is in production the TNG-R project will be complete and the cost to shoot in 4k will be worth preserving it for the future.

[Lord Garth]

Future-proofing:

1. Don't tie the stories so closely to current events that they can't be separated at all. I like TUC but it's the most blatant example of this. The movie was more about 1991 than 2293. Well, really more about 1986; not that it made a difference. Does anyone really want the next series to be about Starfleet fighting over-privelaged Ferengi who exploit 99% of the Quadrant?

2. Fashion. ENT went a little too far toward being contemporary (though not as far as TFF). DS9/VOY civilian wear fared better than TNG's but do make it look futuristic. Some fashion will change, some fashion won't, but it's unrealistic to assume that fashion in the future will look exactly the same as it does today. So, don't be afraid of having styles that look a little ridiculous. There are always going to be styles that look silly.

3. Technical end. Not much to do here. The end result of all these advancments will be VR. No series is designed for this as of yet. I also think that someday, there will be an attempt made to make ST XI 3-D to keep it consistent with all future movies. They might also go back and try to make the series 3-D. Don't be surprised if they release TNG 3-D 10 years after TNG HD.

[Bry_Sinclair]

Lord Garth wrote:

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3. Technical end. Not much to do here. The end result of all these advancments will be VR. No series is designed for this as of yet. I also think that someday, there will be an attempt made to make ST XI 3-D to keep it consistent with all future movies. They might also go back and try to make the series 3-D. Don't be surprised if they release TNG 3-D 10 years after TNG HD.

Until 3D is like a mini holodeck in your living room I'm not going to bother with it

Good stories should never really date, so long as they aren't a blatant rip-off of current events (like Lord Garth mentioned with TUC, a film that I too like). Make them about the characters and people will watch for the human/Vulcan/Andorian/etc drama of it all.

Special effects and that will always be out of date a year after an episode airs as new techniques and what not are developed and made more affordable, there is no way around that.

[mos6507]

Lord Garth wrote:

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1. Don't tie the stories so closely to current events that they can't be separated at all.

History doesn't necessarily repeat, but it rhymes.

Just because the Chernobyl and fall of the USSR theme was the inspiration of Trek VI doesn't mean things like that don't keep happening throughout the span of time. Look at the hubris that led to Fukushima, for instance, or the arab spring parallel to the fall of the USSR. It could be that what you see today with Syria and Iran holding onto outdated dictatorial models and a certain swath of america sympathetic to burning Korans is just another flavor of the end of the soviet union and the old-guard that became to attached to the unending conflict.

A far better example of "dating" Trek would be The Way to Eden, which was a far too literal take on hippie culture.