7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Saul]

Mr Awe wrote:

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It's just like replacing the Doctor with a lookalike robot. In this case, you're planting a headstone to keep up appearances.

Mr Awe

Fixed points usually revolve around something historically significant that ALWAYS happened. Rory and Amy going back in time isn't unless they do something historically significant something so grandiose that it would become a fixed point... I don't see it though.

[Timelord_Victorious]

I don't think it's a case of "Bowie Base 1".
More like a Father's Day don't change your personal timeline thing.

[Saul]

Surely them disappearing from their own timeline would be a bigger blunder to their personal timeline.

[danellis]

Saul wrote:

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Surely them disappearing from their own timeline would be a bigger blunder to their personal timeline.

Maybe not: maybe they'er their own great-grandparents?

dJE

[RoJoHen]

Saul wrote:

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Surely them disappearing from their own timeline would be a bigger blunder to their personal timeline.

It just sucks that they rebooted the entire universe and managed to bring back Amy's whole family, only for her to lose them again by getting zapped back in time. I really do want to see how the Doctor deals with Amy's family in the "present day," if he does at all.

[Starkers]

Yeah but the moment she got her family back she buggered off in the Tardis so she can't have been that bothered

[RoJoHen]

I'm more concerned with how her family is dealing with Amy suddenly being gone forever.

Plus, after the universe rebooted, Amy had always had her family, so she had no reason to miss them anymore.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Kruezerman wrote:

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Innovation is great, it's what's keeping the industry alive, but if the story can't be followed and it jumps all over the place, what's the point?

A bit of a moot point since the story we're talking about could be followed easily.

[Kruezerman]

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

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A bit of a moot point since the story we're talking about could be followed easily.

Perhaps I should clarify, not the story of the episode (though that had pacing problems) but the story of the arch itself, indeed the season so far felt as if it doesn't make a lick of sense.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Kruezerman wrote:

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Perhaps I should clarify, not the story of the episode (though that had pacing problems) but the story of the arch itself, indeed the season so far felt as if it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Not a lick of sense? I don't know, it seemed to be pretty straightforward. The Doctor didn't want the Ponds to leave him, the Ponds were thinking about quitting anyway, and circumstances ultimately made the decision for them. That's the arc, isn't it? What's nonsensical about that? Or are you talking about something else?

[RoJoHen]

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

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Not a lick of sense? I don't know, it seemed to be pretty straightforward. The Doctor didn't want the Ponds to leave him, the Ponds were thinking about quitting anyway, and circumstances ultimately made the decision for them. That's the arc, isn't it? What's nonsensical about that? Or are you talking about something else?

That is indeed the arc, and the end of it kinda sucks. If you're just going to trap the Ponds back in time anyway, what dramatic purpose does it serve to have them going back and forth about whether or not they want to quit? Their fate pretty much make the conversations in the earlier episodes worthless.

[The Mirrorball Man]

RoJoHen wrote:

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That is indeed the arc, and the end of it kinda sucks. If you're just going to trap the Ponds back in time anyway, what dramatic purpose does it serve to have them going back and forth about whether or not they want to quit? Their fate pretty much make the conversations in the earlier episodes worthless.

An inescapable fate makes prior conversations about free will worthless? Well, there goes Hamlet. In fact, characters debating big personal issues before having their decisions annihilated by a cruel fate is pretty much what tragedy is all about.

[Starkers]

^Exactly, the fact the Ponds gave up the chance to walk away from the Doctor makes their eventual end all the more tragic, otherwise, well like you say where's the drama. There's no point having Rose go on and on about spending her entire life travelling with the Doctor only for her not to do it, it's so unfair, and poor Adric, after he decided to go home to E space then saying he wanted to stay with the Doctor they only went and killed him, curse you drama!

I would concede that maybe the decision they made in The Power of Three should have come sooner in the arc, and I do wonder if TPOT was supposed to air before A Town Called Mercy.

[O'Dib]

Moffat is pretty obsessive, I've found, about tying up loose ends, so there's a good chance we'll learn more about why the Ponds stayed in the past (instead of requesting pickup elsewhere/elsewhen), and the Doctor let them. Experiencing the 20th century up to the point when they were roughly born, the part they mostly knew from history, and having seen the future, who's to say they didn't wanna stay and live a time adventure sans Doctor? They were gonna leave him anyway. And he was beginning to realize they would end, making him likely to just stop visiting at some point. Did I hear that line correctly, had they really spent ten years traveling with him, with roughly 2 years passing in their present-day?

Anyway, WWII America would be an amazing time for a present-day nurse to show off and teach his skills, and a head-strong feminist to join/lead the women-in-the-workforce movement. Maybe they were so important they did become fixed points in time. The 60s? Weed was mild and chill, and occasionally dropping acid meant they would still get to trip their balls off much like in a time vortex.

Alternatively, the angel fed on both their time potentials, possibly meaning they could no longer travel in time. Amy got fed on willingly. Doc got the message. Though, did people sent to the past in Blink get time locked when eaten by an angel? Either way. I was puzzled by the angels suddenly learning to convert other statues. This outcome was certainly hinted at with the hokey ending to Blink. Hopefully we'll learn more about the how of it.

[Bob The Skutter]

Obsessive about tying up loose ends? *snigger*