Farscape or Babylon 5?

[HighteeHeller]

I'm beginning to think we are all getting our legs pulled. Seriously. Kirk has bashed every highly rated, important episode, continually bashes a favourite character, and is now refusing to watch episodes important to the overall arc. It doesn't add up.

Farscape might not be for everyone, and, ya, it has some bad episodes, but to blatantly disregard what the fans say, read synopsis instead of watching the episodes, and then skip important character and plot developments because you might not enjoy them, well, that's just bizarre. Too strange to be the truth.

If, in fact, you are doing all these things for real, then, like others have said, just stop watching. For yourself, and for our sanity.

[Greg Cox]

KellynSE wrote:

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While I’d very much disagree that Chiana is totally useless, in the context of this particular show I don’t see it as a bad thing at all that she’s often more trouble than she’s worth. This isn’t the Enterprise D supposedly staffed with only the best of the best; we’re dealing with a random, frequently incompetent group of desperate fugitives who often have no idea what the hell they’re doing--and that’s a big part of the fun! Chiana screws up, she behaves selfishly, she sometimes makes things worse, and she annoys the others, too. Early on, at least, they like her just enough not to toss her off Moya at the earliest opportunity.

Nicely put. A big part of the appeal of FARSCAPE is that the characters aren't an orderly, disciplined crew that works well together. Hell, they can't even get around to agreeing on a captain . . . it's an anarchic group of runaways, refugees, and outcasts, which is half the fun.

[DWF]

HighteeHeller wrote:

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I'm beginning to think we are all getting our legs pulled. Seriously. Kirk has bashed every highly rated, important episode, continually bashes a favourite character, and is now refusing to watch episodes important to the overall arc. It doesn't add up.

How's a new watcher going to know which character is a fan favorite or which eps. are important? I remember getting a fan of the new Doctor Who series to some of the old show and he didn't like The Caves Of Androzani, a long time fan favorite storyline.

Part of the problem with people see shows anymore is that they can pick and choose what eps. they want to see, even if the eps. in question are important.

[HighteeHeller]

DWF wrote:

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How's a new watcher going to know which character is a fan favorite or which eps. are important? I remember getting a fan of the new Doctor Who series to some of the old show and he didn't like The Caves Of Androzani, a long time fan favorite storyline.

Part of the problem with people see shows anymore is that they can pick and choose what eps. they want to see, even if the eps. in question are important.

I think he already knows these things and is having fun. I have a hard time believing that someone who clearly doesn't like what makes Farscape great would continue to watch it.

[kirk55555]

HighteeHeller wrote:

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I'm beginning to think we are all getting our legs pulled. Seriously. Kirk has bashed every highly rated, important episode, continually bashes a favourite character, and is now refusing to watch episodes important to the overall arc. It doesn't add up.

I'm not pulling anyone's leg, I give my honest opinions to everything I watch. I am a bit insulted at the insinuation that I'm just trolling farscape fans, but I understand that the internet has a lot of people like that, so its easy to get suspicious. All I can say is that I do not enjoy ticking people off, thats just not the kind of guy I am. I'm just a sci Fi fan who apparently has some opinions that don't agree with other fans. If you don't agree with me, you don't have to read my posts. Now, on to the stuff I watched today.

The Locket (Farscape) - First off, I did skip the princess trilogy, Beware of Dog and won't get Fooled Again, and started again with this episode. Its an average, forgettable episode, I don't have much to say about it.

The Ugly Truth (Farscape) - I really enjoyed this episode. The different tellings were entertaining. Well, except Zhaan's telling, which was a bit annoying. It seems like, once again, Talyn is just around to cause trouble, although their situation was probably more Moya's fault. I was surprised to see stark acting like he did, I thought he was more level headed than this episode showed. Overall, a very good episode.

A Clockwork Nebari (Farscape) - This was not a good episode. It was very Chiana heavy, I didn't watch all of it.

[Harvey]

You skipped four of the best (not to mention crucial) episodes of the series based on a knee-jerk reaction to their plot summaries on the internet. That's just bewildering to me, but to each their own.

If you don't care of the upcoming three-part "Liars Guns and Money" and the finale, well...you're just not a fan of the series. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you shouldn't expect it to change dramatically from this point on. Probably best to stick with Babylon 5.

[kirk55555]

Harvey wrote:

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You skipped four of the best (not to mention crucial) episodes of the series based on a knee-jerk reaction to their plot summaries on the internet. That's just bewildering to me, but to each their own.

If you don't care of the upcoming three-part "Liars Guns and Money" and the finale, well...you're just not a fan of the series. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you shouldn't expect it to change dramatically from this point on. Probably best to stick with Babylon 5.

Well, I plan to watch the Liars, Guns and Money episodes. The synopsis makes it seem like good episodes. The Princess Trilogy just looked horrible, and I read long summaries, a full page an episode. They were actually too long, I would have liked a bit less depth. What did they reveal/have happen that was so important? Revealing that scorpius's head tube is some kind of heat moderation unit? Showing that some random guy can kill Moya whenever he wants? Having D'Argo and Chiana get together? I didn't miss any of the plot points, I just avoided watching a few painful episodes.

I remember when I said I hated A Human Reaction and got similar comments, yet I don't regret continuing with the series. Besides, reading synopsis it looks like the series is picking up, the rest of the episodes this season sound like they have potential (although with only 4 episodes left, they should). I will admit that I may be missing something, but I don't think you can take my skipping three episodes and say that if I don't like them, I don't like the series.

When I started this thread, I didn't think it would get so intense, I was just posting about my experiences with two sci fi shows I'd never watched befpre

[Kegg]

kirk55555 wrote:

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The synopsis makes it seem like good episodes. The Princess Trilogy just looked horrible, and I read long summaries, a full page an episode. They were actually too long, I would have liked a bit less depth. What did they reveal/have happen that was so important?

The execution. Kiss the Princess is a gonzo paced story that juggles a dozen weird plots. It's got terrific comedy moments, twists, standoffs, the works. There's some great Crichton/D'Argo moments here. Great bits for Scorpius. As silly as the plot can sound, it challenges Crichton in ways that are interesting and in ways that Browder acts out pretty well. Farscape did many multi-part episode arcs, and they're almost uniformly excellent. While the show can be severely uneven, Kiss the Princess is widely seen as one of the standout achievements of season two.

I dunno. Honestly, if you said you'd watched it and it bored you to tears I think that'd produce a less apopleptic response then the one you've been getting. Skipping Farscape episodes because the idea sounds silly doesn't exactly leave a lot of episodes left to actually watch, as Farscape being silly is kind of the default mode of the program.

When I started this thread, I didn't think it would get so intense, I was just posting about my experiences with two sci fi shows I'd never watched befpre

Ignoring comic books, there's an extent to which this is the Babylon 5/Farscape subforum, as discussions of both shows occur pretty regularly and each are held in high esteem as two of the best TV series of their genre.

So you're definitely going to get a lot of passion when it comes to these programs.

[kirk55555]

I get what you mean, but if I had watched them, my post just would have been "I wtached it for 5 minutes, threw my shoe at my TV, then skipped the episodes". Its not the silliness I have problems with. Its watching a story I've seen a million times that gets on my nerves. The Princess trilogy's story is based on what is probably one of the top 5 biggest cliches of all time (and one I personally hate 99% of the time), and it doesn't seem to have done anything special with the premise at all. I wouldn't put up with a Star Trek episode that used that premise (and I would bet one or two have), and if I couldn't stand it from my favorite sci Fi franchise ever, Farscape has no chance of doing it in a way I can stand. Thats not to say others can't like it, but its literally taking a premise I hate and then not adding anything to it to make me interested. Maybe if Rygel had to marry a proncess, I could see it being funny or being different. As it is, the only regret I have about skipping the trilogy is the bad reaction I've gotten for not wanting to watch it, like I've stated before making people angry is not something I want to do.

[Reverend]

kirk55555 wrote:

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First off, I did skip the princess trilogy, Beware of Dog and won't get Fooled Again

Oh dear lord, what are you doing mate?! I'm sure by now you're probably already sick of people telling you off for this, but just imagine for a second you're sitting watching a film with a friend. It's a film you like and are enjoying introducing it to someone else...but then your friend starts skipping scenes because a character they don't like pops up and hitting fast forward because they think they know what's going to happen next.

Now, tell me that after a few minutes of this you wouldn't be fighting the urge to beat said friend to death with the remote.

Seriously. Go back and watch these episodes and stop reading ahead! You're not *watching* the show, you're skimming it. Try that with a novel and see how soon you get lost and loose all interest and any investment in the characters.

As someone else said up-thread; there's more to an episode than the premise and the plot. To give an example, my favourite episodes of 'Babylon 5' looks very boring on paper. It does nothing to advance the story from the previous episode into the next, has none of my favourite characters and consists of little more than two characters, sitting on opposite sides of a table, talking to each other. You could very easily skip this episode and not even notice. The events are never directly referenced every again, the other person is never seen nor mentioned every again. However, it's one of the best character pieces in the entire series and tells you just about everything you need to know about what makes a certain main character tick.

P.S. For those who haven't guessed already and to make sure nobody let's a spoiler slip by asking, the episode I'm describing is: -

'Intersections in Real Time'

[Jolaris]

I've been lurking in this thread for a while, but now I do have to chime in.

"Won't get fooled again" - Personally I think it's one of the most bizarre, weird, surreal and laugh out loud-funny hours of television I have ever experienced. It's hilarious!
I don't think many other shows would dare go where that episode went...

Well, until "Revenging Angel"...

Does it not also introduce a certain new best friend of Crichton who likes to... um... mess with his head?
And as someone said before, it explains alot about why Crichton is slowly going totally and utterly insane.

To be fair to kirk55555 though, It took me like year after A Human Reaction before the confusion about Ancients and why everyone wants Crichtons head disappeared. I had to rewatch that episode and then it all fell into place.

And kirk55555, you were wondering what important stuff you missed in the Princess-trilogy?

It puts a new major player on the galactic chessboard where the winners gets' what's inside Crichton's head.

I think what most people are having a problem is you are skipping those episodes that are the equivalent of skipping every episode involving aliens or the Conspiracy if this had been the X-Files.

And kirk55555, there is no such thing as a new story, every story has been done to death many times before, it's all about the execution and the characters, and that is something Farscape is very, very, good at.

[kirk55555]

Yeah, every story has been done, but I still can't get past the "guy has to marry someone he doesn't love for stupid reasons instead of being with the person he does love" premise. I just hate that premise/cliche so much. I know I'd feel like breaking something if I had to suffer through that. It's not just Farscape, though. I honestly don't think anyone could do that story in a way I wouldn't hate it. Combine that with everything else I read about the episodes (he becomes a statue? Really? And Scorpius needs a tube in his head to regulate his temperature? ) and it just seems like something that would be a chore to sit through.

I am kind of wondering why old John in The Locket was talking to an imaginary Scorpius, but I'm sure it was either a) he was going senile or it had something to do with what was happening in that dimension/world or b) it was some other reason, that will be brought up later anyway.

As for Won't Get Fooled Again, I know people keep saying its not like A Human Reaction, but its still too close for me to have any desire to watch it. I know its not the real Earth, therefore its just a waste of time to watch him walk around a obviously fake earth for 30+ minutes until he escapes/gets rescued/gets released and he's back on Moya like nothing happened. I just don't understand the appeal.

[Harvey]

"Won't Get Fooled Again" explains the Harvey (Scorpius) character you saw in "The Locket." His existence will be recapped in the "previously on" montage more than once, though.

[kirk55555]

Harvey wrote:

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"Won't Get Fooled Again" explains the Harvey (Scorpius) character you saw in "The Locket." His existence will be recapped in the "previously on" montage more than once, though.

I figured it would get mentioned eventually, and probably explained later on. That was the only think I didn't know about because of skipping the Princess Trilogy, so I think I'll be fine going on.

[Greg Cox]

kirk55555 wrote:

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As for Won't Get Fooled Again, I know people keep saying its not like A Human Reaction, but its still too close for me to have any desire to watch it. I know its not the real Earth, therefore its just a waste of time to watch him walk around a obviously fake earth for 30+ minutes until he escapes/gets rescued/gets released and he's back on Moya like nothing happened. I just don't understand the appeal.

Because it's surreal and outrageous and blackly comic?

Honestly, it's much better ep than "The Locket," which, as I recall, is more of a straightforward time-travel drama like you'd find on any other SF series.

Again, there's more to any TV episode than just what happens. There's the acting, the editing, the dialogue and character interactions, the grace notes and funny bits that make the whole experience worth watching. Not to mention the costumes and makeup and special effects.

You can't just judge a story by the plot alone. By that standard, JAWS is just "a big shark eats some people, then they blow it up." And the Spielberg movie is no different than some low-budget straight-to-video knockoff.

What matters is not the plot, but how the story is told . . . and the experience along the way. It's the journey, not the destination.