Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth...

Klaus · October 8 2012, 03:31 PM

...wow. Even if you're not a fan, you have to appreciate the effort behind this one. Yikes.

Middle-Earth on Statistics

Deckerd · October 8 2012, 03:33 PM

No wonder they were all doomed.

Alidar Jarok · October 8 2012, 03:42 PM

Impressive counting, but not really significant beyond that except that it shows that Tolkien didn't care about representing women in his stories. I don't think there were really that few, just that he didn't write them (with the exception of Dwarves, where, iirc, he actually said women were much fewer than men).

Ar-Pharazon · October 8 2012, 04:53 PM

"The page isn't redirecting properly

Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete."

Hound of UIster · October 8 2012, 07:31 PM

Samples are too small and skewed. Most of Tolkien's characters among the elves and also of the non-Hobbit-type men are usually the warrior and nobility class. If the story had a more domestic setting for Gondor, I suspect the numbers would be more even, but I doubt anyone would care about Aragorn and Arwen and also Faramir and Eowyn's domestic lives in Gondor after the War.

ROBE · October 8 2012, 07:52 PM

Adventures of the washerwoman and the dirty shirts would make a boring story.

Kegg · October 8 2012, 09:42 PM

^
Yes, because if there's one thing we know for certain, it's that telling the stories of female characters in a pseudo-medieval society is extremely boring... or wait, the exact opposite of that. Anyway:

Alidar Warlock wrote:

Impressive counting, but not really significant beyond that except that it shows that Tolkien didn't care about representing women in his stories.

This is true, but the one gender imbalance that I noticed and found curious is that, while there are far more humans overall, there are more women hobbits mentioned than human women.

Alidar Jarok · October 8 2012, 09:58 PM

That's because Hobbits had personal lives. He didn't hate women or anything like that, they just didn't fit into his story. But the girl Sam likes, for example, is relevant to his characterization. It's a peaceful, non-martial society. I don't think Tolkien had anything against including women in his stories (there are a couple very significant ones).

kythe · October 9 2012, 04:18 AM

Some of the women that are featured in the stories are very strong characters, for the times. LOTR was published during the 50's, when women were expected to be housewives and mothers. There was no Xena: Warrior princess (or similar fictional character in pop culture) to be an "example" for women.

Yet Tolkien managed to work Eowyn into the published book, a female character who wanted more than the life of a caregiver and who was willing to go to extremes to attain her goal. The Silmarillion had several other strong female characters as well, like Luthien, but it wasn't published until after Tolkien's death in the late 1970's.

Deckerd · October 9 2012, 08:49 AM

I get tired of people using the Silmarillion in comparison to LotR, as if it's a single narrative of comparable merit. People don't use Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as a comparative narrative to James Bond books. Or do they? My god what have I done?

kythe · October 10 2012, 05:18 AM

What does Chitty Chitty Bang Bang have to do with James Bond? The Silmarillion and LOTR are by the same author about the same "world", that of Middle-Earth. LOTR actually fits into the Silmarillion, a summary of it is in the last chapter.

Deckerd · October 10 2012, 08:08 AM

You need to be able to step back and look with more critical eyes. It's not for no reason that the Silmarillion is a little-known postscript to LotR, except for a few misty-eyed diehards who think everything the great man wrote is great.

JarodRussell · October 10 2012, 12:30 PM

Hm, pretty nice. I would love to see stuff like that for other works like Harry Potter, Star Trek or the Bible.

Blip · October 10 2012, 02:17 PM

Frau Blucher wrote:

You need to be able to step back and look with more critical eyes. It's not for no reason that the Silmarillion is a little-known postscript to LotR, except for a few misty-eyed diehards who think everything the great man wrote is great.

Whether anyone thinks it's great or not is irrelevant. The work describes a different age in the same world. You may not find the Silmarillion to be interesting personally, but it's just as relevant in terms of giving background to Middle Earth as the TNG Technical Manual is to fleshing out aspects of the Enterprise-D and other Treknology.

Why are you so intent on discounting it?

Deckerd · October 10 2012, 03:00 PM

Discounting it in what respect? Are you actually taking that 'statistical analysis' seriously?

October 8 2012, 03:31 PM	#1
Klaus Rear Admiral Location: Klaus - Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar	Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... ...wow. Even if you're not a fan, you have to appreciate the effort behind this one. Yikes. Middle-Earth on Statistics __________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain http://tlbklaus.deviantart.com

October 8 2012, 03:33 PM	#2
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... No wonder they were all doomed. __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.

October 8 2012, 03:42 PM	#3
Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Location: Arlington, VA	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Impressive counting, but not really significant beyond that except that it shows that Tolkien didn't care about representing women in his stories. I don't think there were really that few, just that he didn't write them (with the exception of Dwarves, where, iirc, he actually said women were much fewer than men). __________________ When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans

October 8 2012, 04:53 PM	#4
Ar-Pharazon Admiral of the Rear	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... "The page isn't redirecting properly Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete." __________________ Rimmer, on what period of history to live in- “Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals. The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).

October 8 2012, 07:31 PM	#5
Hound of UIster Rear Admiral	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Samples are too small and skewed. Most of Tolkien's characters among the elves and also of the non-Hobbit-type men are usually the warrior and nobility class. If the story had a more domestic setting for Gondor, I suspect the numbers would be more even, but I doubt anyone would care about Aragorn and Arwen and also Faramir and Eowyn's domestic lives in Gondor after the War.

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October 8 2012, 07:52 PM	#6
ROBE Lieutenant Commander	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Adventures of the washerwoman and the dirty shirts would make a boring story.

October 8 2012, 09:58 PM	#8
Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Location: Arlington, VA	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... That's because Hobbits had personal lives. He didn't hate women or anything like that, they just didn't fit into his story. But the girl Sam likes, for example, is relevant to his characterization. It's a peaceful, non-martial society. I don't think Tolkien had anything against including women in his stories (there are a couple very significant ones). __________________ When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans

October 9 2012, 04:18 AM	#9
kythe Commander Location: US	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Some of the women that are featured in the stories are very strong characters, for the times. LOTR was published during the 50's, when women were expected to be housewives and mothers. There was no Xena: Warrior princess (or similar fictional character in pop culture) to be an "example" for women. Yet Tolkien managed to work Eowyn into the published book, a female character who wanted more than the life of a caregiver and who was willing to go to extremes to attain her goal. The Silmarillion had several other strong female characters as well, like Luthien, but it wasn't published until after Tolkien's death in the late 1970's.

October 9 2012, 08:49 AM	#10
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... I get tired of people using the Silmarillion in comparison to LotR, as if it's a single narrative of comparable merit. People don't use Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as a comparative narrative to James Bond books. Or do they? My god what have I done? __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.

October 10 2012, 05:18 AM	#11
kythe Commander Location: US	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... What does Chitty Chitty Bang Bang have to do with James Bond? The Silmarillion and LOTR are by the same author about the same "world", that of Middle-Earth. LOTR actually fits into the Silmarillion, a summary of it is in the last chapter.

October 10 2012, 08:08 AM	#12
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... You need to be able to step back and look with more critical eyes. It's not for no reason that the Silmarillion is a little-known postscript to LotR, except for a few misty-eyed diehards who think everything the great man wrote is great. __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.

October 10 2012, 12:30 PM	#13
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Hm, pretty nice. I would love to see stuff like that for other works like Harry Potter, Star Trek or the Bible. __________________ lol l /\

October 10 2012, 03:00 PM	#15
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Statistical Breakdown of Middle-Earth... Discounting it in what respect? Are you actually taking that 'statistical analysis' seriously? __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.