TP: Brinkmanship by Una McCormack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[rfmcdpei]

Sci wrote:

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[H]owever shabbily the Akaar and Bacco treated the Venettans, the fact remains that they chose to turn their backs on the UFP and to allow a hostile power to place technology that could be used as a bioweapon on the UFP border. The Venettans truly did start it, and while we may admire their extreme openness, their utter refusal to accept the common realities of espionage and manipulation in international relations stands out as a form of ethnocentrism to me (especially when they condemn the Federation for espionage and refuse to acknowledge the possibility that the Tzenkethi do the same or worse). They did take threatening action towards the Federation, and there's no way around that.

Last night I was chatting with a friend about science-fiction novels and universes. We got around to talking about Banks' Culture (you know there's a new one out) and the peculiar social mechanics of societies with post-scarcity economies and non-hierarchical polities. In the case of the Culture, the combination of near-infinite plenty, an effective lack of agencies capable of coercing Culture citizens, and a disinterest in doing so, sees bits of the Culture splinter off whenever something momentous happens. A faction split off from the Culture when the majority chose to fight the war with the Idirans, for instance.

The Venette Convention seems to be a civilization roughly on the same level as the Federation, i.e. an emergent post-scarcity society. The Venette Convention is definitely a non-hierarchical society. How, then, is the Venette Convention able to function as a coherent state-like entity without different subpopulations fragmenting off? There's cultural power, pressures towards conformity in an apparently very old and stable culture, but can that last indefinitely?

[Sci]

MatthiasRussell wrote:

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Shouldn't the fact that the negotiator was representing the Cardassian government show that she was a participant in a democratic republic?

It demonstrates that she is a participant in the democratic process, but not that she is in favor of democracy. Weimar Germany had a number of powerful political figures in its Parliament and administrations who did not actually favor democracy and wanted to bring back the imperial autocracy that Germany had held under the Kaiser -- which was part of how Hitler came to power.

It would be perfectly plausible for the book to depict anti-democratic factions within the new Cardassian government as having enough power to install one of their own as lead Cardassian negotiator.

Pointing out that she is a democrat seems partly irrellevant and partly judgemental of other political persuasions.

It is not irrelevant, because it would not have been implausible for an anti-democrat to be appointed to the position. It is judgmental of Cardassian politics, yes. After two major wars started by Cardassian militarism, the Federation has every right to be judgmental of the militaristic faction within the Cardassian power elite and to openly favor Cardassian democrats.

Plus, as I said, Romulans are democrats

Actually, up until Rough Beasts of Empire, we had no idea by which members of the Romulan Senate were selected. Rough Beasts established that the Senate is comprised of representatives from the Romulan aristocracy, the Hundred families, whose clans appoint one of their own as Senator.

Meanwhile, both the novels and the canon have established the existence of a Romulan monarchy. The Emperor or Empress usually ruled as a ceremonial head of state, with the Praetor as the head of government with real power. The Romulan throne has fallen vacant since the assassination of Shiarkeik, but there's been no indication that the Monarchy has been formally abolished.

So, no, the Romulan Star Empire is neither a democracy nor a republic.

and Klingons are militant.

Yes -- but the Klingon Empire have been a great deal less aggressive to the Federation in the past half-century than the Cardassian Union.

You might recall that in TOS's "Errand of Mercy," Kirk cited Federation democracy as a reason the UFP was better than the Empire. So when the Federation and the Empire were in a similar state of hostilities the prior century, Federates were just as likely to look down upon Klingon feudalism as Cardassian autocracy.

So does one form of government really incline a people to be friendlier with the UFP?

The Federation obviously sees the fledging Cardassian democracy movement as friendlier than the remnants of the old Central Command, yes. Probably has to do with that Central Command doing things like starting major wars.

They may be democratic, but they are still Cardassians. A culture doesn't change in a few years time.

But Cardassian culture has had democracy in the past, and has had an underground movement for democratic reform for a long time. Cardassians are perhaps the least homogenous of all Star Trek cultures.

[flandry84]

/\Indeed,it is my understanding that rule by the military junta(central command)had only been a relatively recent development on Cardassia.Remember Madred telling Picard about the privations of Cardassian society before the guls took power.

[rfmcdpei]

Sci wrote:

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Actually, up until Rough Beasts of Empire, we had no idea by which members of the Romulan Senate were selected. Rough Beasts established that the Senate is comprised of representatives from the Romulan aristocracy, the Hundred families, whose clans appoint one of their own as Senator.

Meanwhile, both the novels and the canon have established the existence of a Romulan monarchy. The Emperor or Empress usually ruled as a ceremonial head of state, with the Praetor as the head of government with real power. The Romulan throne has fallen vacant since the assassination of Shiarkeik, but there's been no indication that the Monarchy has been formally abolished.

So, no, the Romulan Star Empire is neither a democracy nor a republic.

One problem is that Pardek is stated in "Unification" as representing the Krocton Segment, a territory on Romulus. He's described as a "man of the people" who carries on a successful dialogue with the residents of the Krocton Segment.

At the very least, there were seats representing territories in the old Senate, before it was restored by Tal'Aura.

[JWolf]

Una McCormack wrote:

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I'm convinced spell check is in the hands of some particularly mischievous gremlins. Rivaled only by the autocorrect pixies.

The autocorrect pixies live in iOS. Try typing unknown words with an iPhone or iPad and see what you end up with.

[JWolf]

Una McCormack wrote:

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Is that really in the Kindle edition? Crumbs. Not what I wrote and not in my paperback. And yet I kind of like it...

Thank you to everyone who has taken time to post their thoughts about the book: I've been really enjoying reading all the interesting discussion. I wish I had time at the moment to respond in depth, but term has just started and I'm run off my feet.

Here is the line in chapter 12 from the ePub edition...

“Will we? Rushing from crisis to crisis, we’re changing. And what will we become? Will there be any room for those of us who want to understand other civilizations? Am I overreacting?”

Is that actually correct and if not, what is the correct wording?

The cover I feel is actually better in greyscale then with the blue ting. I noticed this when I first saw the cover on my 650. Sometimes not having a color screen is a good thing.

[Astraea]

JWolf wrote:

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Here is the line in chapter 12 from the ePub edition...

“Will we? Rushing from crisis to crisis, we’re changing. And what will we become? Will there be any room for those of us who want to understand other civilizations? Am I overreacting?”

Is that actually correct and if not, what is the correct wording?

The cover I feel is actually better in greyscale then with the blue ting. I noticed this when I first saw the cover on my 650. Sometimes not having a color screen is a good thing.

Pretty sure that it was clarified upthread that the quote is correct; it's just that whoever transcribed the quote onto this thread had accidentally typed "Am I overeating?" instead of "Am I overreacting?" at the end of the quote, prompting the "Is that what they printed? Oh crumbs" remark.

[JRoss]

Conflicted about this one. Out of 10:

Writing style: 2, bordered on purple prose at several points. There was whimsy, yes, but there were a few paragraphs where it felt like the writing was getting way from the author. I also felt that the coded messages and logs at the beginning of each chapter got a bit out of hand, especially when many of them actually had nothing to say.

Story: 4, a lot of things didn't make sense, such as how the Cardassian operative could simply tell by looking that her boss was an altered human. I was hoping that it would turn out that the scenes on Ab-Tzenketh were flashbacks and that the human operative would turn out to have been Peter Alden.

Characters: 7, almost an eight except that some characters come off completely different than they usually do, especially Akaar. That said, Beverly, Jean-Luc and Ezri get some fantastic lines. Ilka is a nice new character who I quite enjoyed.

Overall: 4

[Sci]

JRoss wrote:

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Story: 4, a lot of things didn't make sense, such as how the Cardassian operative could simply tell by looking that her boss was an altered human.

I think that scene was very clear. Efheny could tell he wasn't a Tzenkethi because his body language did not conform to Tzenkethi norms.

[MatthiasRussell]

^ At first, I was thinking, "If the Cardassian operative can see the differences in her boss, why can't anyone else? But then later you find out that everyone DID see the difference. I guess they didn't suspect alien infiltration at that level, especially since Tzenkethi at that caste level don't know that there are aliens. Still, I imagine, during the operative's reconditioning and the autopsy of the human, their true nature will be revealed.

[trash80]

Above Average, very good book which made me care about the "guest stars" like all good Trek books should. I find the Tzenkethi society fascinating, in some ways its a bit like the Dominion in that people are genetically engineered to be perfect for a certain role though.

[BillJ]

Above average.

Liked the looks we got at the Tzenkethi, the Venetans and I liked Crusher's role in the book.

Continue to dislike Ezri Dax. She's an off-putting know-it-all.

[Paris]

Just finished. The first bit didn't keep me as interested as the last 100 pages or so. I like that Crusher got some play, but I would have liked more with Worf and at least to have seen Chen and Choudhry (sp?). I like Una's style, and hope to see her contribute more often. 7/10

[Hartzilla2007]

Deranged Nasat wrote:

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If the Venetans are serious about interacting with other spacefaring nations in the long-term, it would be interesting to see them realize how their fully open society could in itself be a means of destabilizing foreign representatives. Undermining the nerve of political opponents would be quite easy, if they learned to understand themselves in that way, to see their remarkably honest and inclusive ways as a "weapon". It might allow them to reconcile their current and long-standing sense of identity with the shocking realization (that surely must now be dawning on them) that they can't trust most outsiders to act like Venetans. Perhaps they can regain a sense of stability if they learn to find security and comfort in the fact that they're playing by different rules than everyone else, and that this gives them the advantage - on their home turf at least - if they can just learn to grasp the shape of the board and see things in terms of advantage and disadvantage. It would be a difficult transition, I'd imagine, but perhaps a more acceptable one than the alternatives, e.g. becoming more manipulative themselves. They don't have to surrender who they are, they can continue playing by different rules, so long as they come to understand the shape of the game. They might realize they already have the means to play this game of politics and prosper in it, without having to become something distasteful to their sensibilities.

After all, through no intention of the Venetans, the Federation, Ferengi and Cardassian delegations were reduced to a game of "where's my chair?" as soon as they entered the meeting space, causing quiet uncertainty and minor distress . (That was rather amusing to me, by the way - the Venetans being set up as an "elevated" society of noble, cultured beings with a highly orderly society, only for our first look at them to be something that throws the protagonists - and the reader - off balance by suggesting the sort of cheerful chaos that doesn't seem to befit noble statesmen and "space elf" societies). If the Venetans ever realize that they throw people off balance simply be being who they are, then they might come to see that they have choices other than "stick your head in the sand" or "betray yourselves by acting distastefully". Hmmm. I hope we do see the Venetans again. They're slow to change and insular, and might as likely just fold back in and become isolationist than actually work through their recent upsets toward a new set of assumptions, but I think there's great potential in them....

And yet the Tzenkethi seemed to be playing them like a fiddle.

[Deranged Nasat]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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And yet the Tzenkethi seemed to be playing them like a fiddle.

Well, that's because they were. Like I said, the Venetans need to understand how everyone else is playing the game before they can be even the slightest bit effective at it themselves. But if they can learn that other cultures aren't doing things the Venetan way, I can see possibilities for them other than "cave in" or "run away".