Borg or Dominion?? - Page 10

Mr_Homn · September 17 2012, 01:02 AM

Anwar wrote:

Mr_Homn wrote:

Nightdiamond wrote:

In that case, they had Picard, who was supposed to know where the vulnerable spot was somehow, because he was once assimilated.

I know, but that's still really dumb. It still establishes that if people know where to aim (all they have to do is ask old johnny), they can all just shoot in the same place and 5 seconds later the whole cube blows up. All of a sudden the villain is reduced from nearly invulnerable force to a joke.

That weak point wasn't always there, it was a temporary weak point that had developed during the battle from all the other damage the Cube had taken. No other Borg ship would be destroyed via the "focus on one spot" tactic.

Then the movie did a bad job of pointing that out.

It just seemed like "Picard shows up, knows where to shoot, and in two seconds borg cube blows up"

If what you say is true, then they could have explained it in one simple line

Anwar · September 17 2012, 02:38 AM

Picard asked for a damage report on the Cube, so he could ascertain how bad off it was. After hearing they were having problems with the power grid (which would include their adaptive shields) he used his residual link to the Collective to overhear what they were saying. It was only after this he ordered them to target that one area.

Taken together, this means that Picard figured the damaged power grid might mean shield failure and then when he tapped into the Collective he overheard something that confirmed his suspicions and he also overheard exactly where the shields had failed and knew where the firepower should be concentrated.

DonIago · September 17 2012, 06:03 AM

I don't even think Picard heard the status of the Borg ship via the Collective intentionally.

Luminus · October 2 2012, 05:34 AM

DonIago wrote:

I don't even think Picard heard the status of the Borg ship via the Collective intentionally.

The Borg whispering isn't intentional on Picard's part. It's automatic, whenever the collective is near.

T'Girl · October 2 2012, 07:19 AM

If Beverly removed all the Borg implants (did she?), what was Picard using to hear the whispering?

DonIago · October 2 2012, 12:35 PM

Well, either she was unable to remove all of them, she didn't locate some of them, or the Borg collective communicates in ways that go beyond simply the implants.

Luminus · October 3 2012, 05:16 AM

She couldn't have removed them all, because nanoprobes are microscopic, and thus part of his circulatory system. It's probably like having antibodies for chickenpox after the fact.

Edit_XYZ · October 6 2012, 12:01 PM

Mr_Homn wrote:

Anwar wrote:

Mr_Homn wrote:

I know, but that's still really dumb. It still establishes that if people know where to aim (all they have to do is ask old johnny), they can all just shoot in the same place and 5 seconds later the whole cube blows up. All of a sudden the villain is reduced from nearly invulnerable force to a joke.

That weak point wasn't always there, it was a temporary weak point that had developed during the battle from all the other damage the Cube had taken. No other Borg ship would be destroyed via the "focus on one spot" tactic.

Then the movie did a bad job of pointing that out.

It just seemed like "Picard shows up, knows where to shoot, and in two seconds borg cube blows up"

If what you say is true, then they could have explained it in one simple line

That it was a temporary weakness due to the battle was always obvious to me (and almost all other posters, apparently) - indeed, it's quite clear, considering the situation and wording.

It's contraindicated to waste lines to point out the obvious.

pimp · October 7 2012, 05:26 PM

wow this thread is still going

NKemp3 · October 8 2012, 12:26 AM

DonIago wrote:

Well, either she was unable to remove all of them, she didn't locate some of them, or the Borg collective communicates in ways that go beyond simply the implants.

She couldn't remove them all actually because that would have been too inconvenient for the movie script. After all....they couldn't just have Picard be the most respected captain of the fleet with the best ship at his disposal to boot. No, they had to have him suddenly develop some superhuman capabilities as well that allowed him to telepathically "feel" what the Borg was up to. Hmmmm. Funny how none of those abilities showed up in post Best of Both Worlds conflicts with the Borg on the TNG show. Then again the Borg Queen never made an appearance either during the whole TNG run.

Don't think about this too hard, folks. It never made much sense.

Anwar · October 8 2012, 03:25 AM

Picard didn't encounter the Collective between BOBW and FC, in "I, Borg" they were too far from the Borg ship that came for Hugh and in Descent they weren't Collective Borg.

There was no opportunity where he'd have been in the position to "hear" the Borg like he did in FC, so there's no plot hole.

NKemp3 · October 8 2012, 04:39 AM

Anwar wrote:

Picard didn't encounter the Collective between BOBW and FC, in "I, Borg" they were too far from the Borg ship that came for Hugh and in Descent they weren't Collective Borg.

There was no opportunity where he'd have been in the position to "hear" the Borg like he did in FC, so there's no plot hole.

Oh, nonsense. He felt the Collective from a billion miles away in First Contact when he was far away from the battle. What's the difference? You're suggesting that a billion light years is close enough but a zillion light years is too far away?

First Contact is full of ridiculously convenient touches like this. Such as Data being able to absorb machine gunfire like he was Iron Man. No damage at all to him either.

Anwar · October 8 2012, 03:10 PM

You're assuming the bullets went into Data, and weren't just smashed against his external frame and couldn't get through. We don't see him with his shirt off so we don't know if the bullets even penetrated.

As for the start, that wasn't even a clear message. It was just a nightmare (it wasn't a flashback, because Picard never took a needle to the eye in BOBW).

September 17 2012, 02:38 AM	#137
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Borg or Dominion?? Picard asked for a damage report on the Cube, so he could ascertain how bad off it was. After hearing they were having problems with the power grid (which would include their adaptive shields) he used his residual link to the Collective to overhear what they were saying. It was only after this he ordered them to target that one area. Taken together, this means that Picard figured the damaged power grid might mean shield failure and then when he tapped into the Collective he overheard something that confirmed his suspicions and he also overheard exactly where the shields had failed and knew where the firepower should be concentrated.

September 17 2012, 06:03 AM	#138
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: Borg or Dominion?? I don't even think Picard heard the status of the Borg ship via the Collective intentionally. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

October 2 2012, 07:19 AM	#140
T'Girl Vice Admiral	Re: Borg or Dominion?? If Beverly removed all the Borg implants (did she?), what was Picard using to hear the whispering?

October 2 2012, 12:35 PM	#141
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: Borg or Dominion?? Well, either she was unable to remove all of them, she didn't locate some of them, or the Borg collective communicates in ways that go beyond simply the implants. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

October 3 2012, 05:16 AM	#142
Luminus Captain Location: The Singularity	Re: Borg or Dominion?? She couldn't have removed them all, because nanoprobes are microscopic, and thus part of his circulatory system. It's probably like having antibodies for chickenpox after the fact. __________________ The universe does not bend to your ignorance.

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October 7 2012, 05:26 PM	#144
pimp Commander Location: United Kingdom, London	Re: Borg or Dominion?? wow this thread is still going __________________ No one here is exactly what he seems - G'Kar

October 8 2012, 03:25 AM	#146
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Borg or Dominion?? Picard didn't encounter the Collective between BOBW and FC, in "I, Borg" they were too far from the Borg ship that came for Hugh and in Descent they weren't Collective Borg. There was no opportunity where he'd have been in the position to "hear" the Borg like he did in FC, so there's no plot hole.

October 8 2012, 03:10 PM	#148
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Borg or Dominion?? You're assuming the bullets went into Data, and weren't just smashed against his external frame and couldn't get through. We don't see him with his shirt off so we don't know if the bullets even penetrated. As for the start, that wasn't even a clear message. It was just a nightmare (it wasn't a flashback, because Picard never took a needle to the eye in BOBW).