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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old October 7 2012, 03:50 AM   #16
izarian
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

I've always felt the crushing of Yeoman Thompson to be one of the most callous murders in all of TOS. Also, after the kelvins reduce the whole crew to foam cubes and since the trip to Andromeda would take 300 years it stands to reason that the kelvins never intended to restore the crew...ever. So after the crew is reduced to foam cubes what did the kelvins do with the cubes??? Just throw them someplace out of the way? Could the crew keep in cube form for 300 years?
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Old October 7 2012, 06:45 AM   #17
Wingsley
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Maybe I'm alone in this thread, but "By Any Other Name" works for me.

It actually comes across as a very Roddenberryan-style TOS story. Kirk and company are overwhelemed by powerful extragalactic aliens, who demonstrate their technological superiority (the ability to instantly paralyze or transmute people) and their ruthlessness (by killing Thompson). The Roddenberryan solution comes in finding the Kelvan vulnerability: their newfound humanity, and exploiting it to bring them to reason. The Kelvans are the ones to learn the lesson of the episode: becoming human on the outside means they become human on the inside.

Is the Kelvan Empire in the Andromeda Galaxy a serious threat to the Federation? Maybe. Kirk may also have recognized that Rojan was simply full of himself and his self-ascribed "mission" to "conquer" and "rule". Once Rojan's crew took control of the Enterprise and set course for Kelva, Kirk had much more than one dead crewman on his mind. Kirk had no idea his ship would survive the Barrier, with or without Scott's suicidal plan. Then when Rojan began transmuting the rest of the crew, Kirk found he had a new mission: he had to restore his crew and stop the Kelvans. Faced with this challenge, and with only a handful of Enterprise crew left in normal form, Kirk wasn't mourning the death of one person.

If I were Kirk at this stage, only three thoughts would be going through my head:

(1: What if these Kelvans actually take my ship to this other Galaxy, turn around, and invade our Galaxy?
(2: How do I stop them and get control of my ship back?
(3: How do I get my crew back to normal form?

I do not see the ending as pure farce, or dismissive of what has happened. Nor do I see Rojan as a mindless cut-throat. Rojan was acting on behalf of his people because his people believe they are in jeopardy. Naturally, when people believe they are in jeopardy, they are willing to kill anyone who gets in the way. Rojan believed the Enterprise crew stood in the way of his ultimate mission: to save his people in another galaxy. Thompson became the first casualty in this galaxy at the hands of Kelvan self-preservation.

Kirk is probably still pissed at Rojan, and for good reason. But Kirk would much rather make peace with the Kelvans, get his ship back, get his crew back, and have Scott figure out how they get the Enterprise to sustain Warp 11 indefinitely. Those are very valuable accomplishments.

As for how Kirk would write the "Dear Mr. & Mrs. Thompson" letter, he would describe her as a heroic casualty of a dangerous "first contact" with powerful alien intergalactic explorers who may prove to be useful allies to the Federation someday. It's obviously outrageous, but given the many times in STAR TREK that aliens have destroyed whole colonies (Cestus III, M-133, Triacus, Delta Rana IV) or space vessels (the Archon, the second Valiant) and yet the Federation starship at hand still pursued a diplomatic solution over revenge, it should not be a surprise. Captain Picard did describe the dangers of "first contact" encounters to Chancellor Durken of Malcor III, and the glacial slog of diplomacy almost cost an injured Commander Riker his life. Picard made it clear that "first contact" is always filled with hazards, even the threat of war.

Given that Kirk managed to avert a larger catastrophe, discovered and made peace with a new neighbor, survived another encounter with the negative energy barrier (a major development), and has seen his ship refit with technology that can sustain Warp 11, he can look upon this mission as a major success... even if the Kelvans tear out all of their goodies and refuse to share them.

Would Kirk try to throw Rojan in the brig? No. But I'll bet he'd persuade Rojan to write an apology letter to Thompson's family. (And I doubt Rojan would object.)
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Old October 7 2012, 06:51 AM   #18
izarian
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Yeah, I guess I can agree with that.
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Old October 7 2012, 12:10 PM   #19
foxhot
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Dear Parents of the Non-Essential Yeoman Humanoid:

Captain Kirk made me write this. Sorry about your daughter. I forgot her name. As you humans say, ''whaddaya gonna do?'' At least tetrahondral solids make nice sugar substitutes, so if you wish to sprinkle her powder in your coffee, you might find it highly stimulating. At least we left you tricorder and communicator. Now you can sell them on this EBay I keep hearing about.

In all serious, though, now that I am human, I now realize that I am crushed by my earlier behavior. And so is she, fortunately. I mean, we see eye to eye now. (Another human expression.) It's all Hanar's fault for reducing her. Then I told him to put the black guy on the right so he could die first as is the cliche, but that sneaky SOB switched them wrong. I am as innocent as the driven white powder.

I was, ah, kidding, about the sugar part. It's not possible now. Tomar, ahem, after immediately regaining consciousness and stepping over Mr. Scott's prone form, went to sickbay for dessert, raided the doctor's lab, then, lacking any available liquor, ahem......snorted what he thought was Starfleet cocaine. I'm really, really sorry. I apologize unreservedly. Now I'm going to cut this short so I can boink Kelinda senseless.
Take care, sincerely yours, yadda yadda bing....

Rojan

To answer izarian's questions, I figure the dissolved crew would ''keep'' in crew form for ANY length of time, no matter what. And since they weren't eliminated outright, I'm guessing Rojan may have had future slave labor in mind......never nind that Kirk, Spock, Scotty and McCoy, the ''essential'' four, would be long-dead.
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Old October 7 2012, 06:21 PM   #20
M
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Just a theory, but since the great Jerome Bixby shares the teleplay credit for this episode with D.C. Fontana, wouldn't it be possible that she's somewhat responsible for the shift in tone at the end of the episode?

Not to belittle Fontana's work (I've always been a huge admirer of her's), but the tone definitely doesn't befit Bixby's other efforts for the series, which were always more earnest in tone. The light tone actually seems more in line with Fontana's work.

So my theory is that there was a moment during the writing of this episode, where Fontana rewrote Bixby's script or "took over" from where he left. If true, I wonder what the original ending looked like. Is there someone here who knows more about what happened during the writing?

Anyways, "By Any Other Name" is one of my favorite episodes not only from the second season but the series as a whole. The Kelvans are good villains (especially Warren Stevens as Rojan), the pacing of the episode and the blocking of the scenes is wonderful. This is just one of these episodes I never get tired of watching.
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Old October 7 2012, 07:27 PM   #21
Knight Templar
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

While I think that the very ending of the episode was too "chummy". (it could've used some somber music) when you watch the show in detail there is a lot dealt with.

1) Kirk kneeling over the crewwoman's crushed, dusty remains and the look on his face.

2) The fact that Kirk was responsible for the death of the woman. It was his planned escape attempt that led Rojan to kill her. Rojan himself said he was doing this because it was obvious Kirk would feel the pain and responsibility of losing one of his people more than something happening to hmself. Rojan in fact says that he and Kirk are alike in that respect.

3) Kirk slamming his fist down when McCoy says he saw the Kelvins reduce a bunch of his doctors and nurses to those little cubes "They've reduced the whole crew!!"
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Old October 7 2012, 07:29 PM   #22
blssdwlf
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Lots of money changes feelings fast.
Well, the Kelvins would be a likely source for any improvements in warp technology, shield technology and advanced materials. That'd be worth some money.

Plus, galactic invasion averted!
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Old October 7 2012, 07:52 PM   #23
Knight Templar
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Lots of money changes feelings fast.
Well, the Kelvins would be a likely source for any improvements in warp technology, shield technology and advanced materials. That'd be worth some money.

Plus, galactic invasion averted!
Yeah, but the miners would be the direct and indirect beneficiaries of the Horta's digging. Kirk and crew, not so much from tech improvements by the Kelvans.
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Old October 7 2012, 10:00 PM   #24
blssdwlf
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Lots of money changes feelings fast.
Well, the Kelvins would be a likely source for any improvements in warp technology, shield technology and advanced materials. That'd be worth some money.

Plus, galactic invasion averted!
Yeah, but the miners would be the direct and indirect beneficiaries of the Horta's digging. Kirk and crew, not so much from tech improvements by the Kelvans.
The Enterprise is a whole lot faster than before. That's an immediate benefit. But going back to the miners, the Horta did kill 50 men. It's more shocking that they became all chummy at the end given that they were probably a tight-knit community. In Starfleet, you're expected to give your life in the line of duty but it might've been more personal with the miners.
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Old October 7 2012, 11:01 PM   #25
Unicron
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

ToddPence wrote: View Post
Here's Kirk's letter to Yeoman Thompson's parents: (scroll down)

http://inthelineofduty.tumblr.com/
Awesome.
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Old October 8 2012, 07:24 AM   #26
T'Girl
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
The fact that Kirk was responsible for the death of the woman.
Blaming her death on Kirk is really a stretch.
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Old October 9 2012, 01:23 PM   #27
Knight Templar
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
The fact that Kirk was responsible for the death of the woman.
Blaming her death on Kirk is really a stretch.
It was Kirk's half assed escape attempt that led directly to the killing of Thompson.

There is no indication whatsoever that Rojan had any intention of harming the landing party before then.
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Old October 9 2012, 02:25 PM   #28
Timo
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

We could just as well blame the slut for offering herself to crystallization, thus placing her commander in a difficult tactical position. Obviously she deserved what she got.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old October 9 2012, 06:13 PM   #29
foxhot
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Re: Problem I had with "By Any Other Name"

Undoubtedly. Remember, Kirk didn't exactly surrender her. She stopped next to Kirk, then moved off when Rojan ordered her to get moving. Had she run, Rojan would have paralyzed her instantly or just dissolved her body then and there. Shea didn't exactly get his chance to take any Kelvans apart. Spock was also uncharacteristically useless. The LOST IN SPACE gang could have handled this situation way better......
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Old October 9 2012, 08:46 PM   #30
Gary Mitchell
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Re: Problem I didn't have with "By Any Other Name"

This is a problem I didn't have with "By A Any Other Name" :
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