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Old October 7 2012, 05:26 PM   #91
blssdwlf
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Albertese wrote: View Post
^^^
So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?
Yes, well, in my version anyway. The only place I can fit a tall 2-deck engineering room in the primary hull happens to be much further in to the center of the hull. What I also did was move the bridge a little further down so it takes more of the top bulge structure to account for the turbolift alignment. So in my version, the floor of the engine room is "D Deck" and goes up to "C Deck". "B Deck" is just above the engine room machinery and could make a great place to sabotage the power systems. And since Kirk ends up running to some Jeffries Tube to make his repairs, it's a decent place to extrapolate to, IMHO. For the purposes of the episode, Kirk could have started his search at "B Deck" and ended up in the engine room as he made his way down



Albertese wrote: View Post
Also, the WNMHGB reference... does it have to be "Engineering Deck 3" as in the third of several Engineering Decks, or could it be "Engineering, Deck 3" as in one of several Engineering stations, one of which happens to be located on Deck 3?
I think it could work either way since to me it is still an "Engineering Deck". Plus, it is ambiguous enough that it could be in either hull
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Old October 7 2012, 05:40 PM   #92
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Given that the various writers were making up all these references without any consensus understanding of the ship's interior layout, I don't think there's any way to take them all literally as part of some consistent interior plan. I've found over the years that it's best to take all numbers in Star Trek with a grain of salt and be open to the idea that some of them are just mistakes or placeholders that were never meant to withstand scrutiny.
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Old October 7 2012, 06:39 PM   #93
TIN_MAN
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

^^ Which is why I have no problem accepting the deck layouts from "The Making of Star Trek" and don't worry too much about throwaway lines in the scripts.
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Old October 7 2012, 07:07 PM   #94
blssdwlf
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

By Grabthar's Hammer... we all definitely have our own take on TOS
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Old October 7 2012, 10:50 PM   #95
Robert Comsol
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Mytran wrote: View Post
"In The Naked Time Uhura reports that Sulu is running around in "level 2 corridor 3". If this "level 2" is "Engineering Level 2" (otherwise wouldn't she say "Deck 2") then there are a LOT of corridors crammed into the top of the pylon - impossibly so"
If "level 2" would refer to "Deck 2" there also would have been a lot of corridors just below the bridge.

The "level 2" reference neither fits "deck 2" or alphabetic prefix nomenclature and made me thinking, too.

What deck is the outer area of the saucer that is on the same deck level as deck 7 but has essentially no connection to the core of deck 7?
Because of the underside curvature of the saucer hull this outer ship's area can only be accessed via deck 6 and would rather seem to be the lower level of deck 6 or "level 2" than a part of deck 7 (and no need for Uhura to get into details if everybody aboard the ship understands what "level 2" refers to).

I can imagine Sulu having a great time driving the other crew members there in front of his rapier - they don't have that much evasion possibilities and space.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; October 7 2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old October 7 2012, 11:11 PM   #96
Robert Comsol
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Albertese wrote: View Post
"So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?"
If "H deck" refers to the hangar deck, than "B deck" could stand for Berth deck and there are good reasons for that: It's a naval term from the age of wooden sailing vessels, "a deck next below the gun deck, where the hammocks of the crew were swung."

According to the official description of the saucer decks, "the decks 4, 5, and 6 are primarily crew quarters, with some provisions for passenger quarters." The senior officers quarters are on deck 5 while the other crew members and junior officers have their quarters on deck 6 (the "Lower Decks" to speak with TNG) which would be the "Berth deck" or simply "B deck".

The impulse engines are at the stern of deck 6 or "B deck".

Bob

@ Christopher

You may trouble me for the salt, as I assume I have no further need for it.
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Old October 16 2012, 08:15 PM   #97
EmperorTiberius
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Just wanted to pitch in about the windows on the pylons. They could be small work areas for people monitoring the engines; a tiny cubicle with a window.
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Old October 16 2012, 11:02 PM   #98
scotpens
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Christopher wrote: View Post
Given that the various writers were making up all these references without any consensus understanding of the ship's interior layout, I don't think there's any way to take them all literally as part of some consistent interior plan.
You're bringing up REALITY in this discussion? Heresy and blasphemy!
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Old October 16 2012, 11:19 PM   #99
Unicron
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post
Just wanted to pitch in about the windows on the pylons. They could be small work areas for people monitoring the engines; a tiny cubicle with a window.
Oompa-Loompas?
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Old October 17 2012, 11:48 PM   #100
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

How many times was "level" used instead of "deck"? I'm thinking maybe “level” refers to pressure compartments, which might span multiple decks, whereas “decks” would be the actual number of horizontal surfaces one would walk on, so sometimes a deck and a level would be the same, but other times not?

This might have some utility in reconciling such things as guest quarters on level 2 with the long turbo lift ride from the bridge? Level 2 might actually correspond to deck 3 or 4, which would be a longer -perhaps more circuitous- turbo lift ride; the same reasoning goes for there being at least 3 corridors on that level as well?

Of course, the workability of this scheme depends on how many times level vs. deck is used and if there is any consistency to be made out of it all.
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Old October 18 2012, 04:59 AM   #101
blssdwlf
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Doing a search against use of "levels" in TOS it would appear that the Engineering deck possesses multiple levels. Levels do not appear to be referred to on other decks so it might be safe to say in "The Naked Time" and "Omega Glory" that "level two" and "lower levels" were understood to be on the "Engineering deck". Interestingly, then if the engineering deck starts at the Engine Room there would be a maze of "levels" at the top (think EMM) going into the bowels of the engineering hull...
The Enemy Within: SCOTT [OC]: Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck.

The Ultimate Computer: SPOCK: There is one possibility. The automatic helm navigation circuit relays might be disrupted from engineering level three.

The Naked Time: UHURA: Sir, level two, corridor three reports a disturbance. Mister Sulu chasing crewmen with a sword.

The Omega Glory: SPOCK: Lieutenant Galloway and I are checking out the lower levels. There seems to be no one aboard. Only uniforms.

The Man Trap: SPOCK: Supplies of salt have been set out as bait at all decks and engineering levels, Captain. However, no one or nothing has approached them as yet.
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Old October 18 2012, 09:49 AM   #102
Timo
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

The "Man Trap" reference especially would seem to make the "levels are parts of an Engineering maze" interpretation vastly preferable. If it's anything like the STXI facility beyond those neat and tidy control rooms, then a "level" is probably very different from a "deck", and in practice represents an odd "fraction of deck".

The one canon view into the TOS engineering spaces, the Drexler diagram from a parallel universe, indeed suggests loss of deck structure coherence when one moves down to the Engineering Hull. It's probably restored in the after parts of that hull, though, making it particularly valid to label one of the decks "Hangar Deck" specifically: little else but the hangar is to be found on that deck, if the corresponding forward hull spaces are but a jumble of catwalks.

The one thing we probably don't need to bother with is attempting to keep curved corridors away from the secondary hull when assigning identities to named and numbered decks. We have to accept that the sets "lie" to some degree in any case, as the ship just plain cannot have circular corridors of the exact same curvature or radius; sometimes the set has to be interpreted as having shallower curves than it actually does, sometimes sharper ones. The Engineering Hull might feature lots of "shallow S" corridors snaking past bulky pieces of machinery, say.

Shallow curving might also be necessary in the problematic hull support pylon: a straight corridor running down the middle would divide the space into uselessly small halves, but a corridor curving along one side would leave maximally useful rooms on the other. Not that too many decks in the neck would have corridors - but Deck 12 just might.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old October 18 2012, 01:17 PM   #103
BK613
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Traditionally, in Navy ships, decks run the length of a hull, flats or platforms are partial "decks" and levels are superstructure "decks."

IIRC, deck numbering begins with the main deck/weather deck as deck 1 and numbers increase as you approach the keel. IOW, Deck 2 is below Deck 1.

The level above the main deck was Level 01 and numbers increased toward the masthead. On the ship I was stationed on, our bridge was on Level 05.

Which often makes me ponder, what if our a priori Bridge = Deck 1 is wrong?
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Old October 18 2012, 02:03 PM   #104
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

^What do you mean by "superstructure 'decks'?"
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Old October 18 2012, 02:46 PM   #105
Mytran
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Just a guess, but would "super-structure" (lat.above structure) not simply refer to "decks" above the weather deck? As per the example (Level 01 etc).

Timo wrote: View Post
Shallow curving might also be necessary in the problematic hull support pylon: a straight corridor running down the middle would divide the space into uselessly small halves, but a corridor curving along one side would leave maximally useful rooms on the other. Not that too many decks in the neck would have corridors - but Deck 12 just might.
There's just no room (or point) in having 8' wide corridors in the neck pylon - the neck is only 16' at it's widest, even before allowance for hull thickness is taken into account. The corridor (S-shaped or not) would obscure most of the floorspace - might as well widen it to accomodate the whole deck!
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