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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old October 6 2012, 08:41 PM   #361
Greg Cox
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Wow! Another Chiana hater! What is it about her that provokes such a strong reaction from some people? Does she remind people of their ex-girlfriends or something?

I always thought she was a fun, exotic character, who added a great deal of spice to the proceedings.

Full disclosure: I actually sold a story about Chiana to the official FARSCAPE magazine back in the day. I can't remember the plot, but it had something to do with her stealing a rare manuscript from a weird alien bookstore . . . .

Trouble ensued.
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Old October 6 2012, 08:46 PM   #362
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Trouble ensued.
It wouldn't have been Farscape otherwise.
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Old October 6 2012, 09:42 PM   #363
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Won't get Fooled again
That is one of the funniest episodes of the season, and highly arc-relevant too.

Seriously, stop reading ahead. Don't. If you're going to talk yourself out of watching all the best episodes because you think you know what they'll be about (you don't), why even bother?

"The Locket" is okay, but it's not nearly as good as the Princess trilogy or Won't Get Fooled.

You really should just watch everything. If there's a *really* bad one, we'll warn you. Otherwise, assume they're at least okay. (Beware of Dog is skippable but not bad.)
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Last edited by Lindley; October 6 2012 at 10:24 PM.
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Old October 6 2012, 10:54 PM   #364
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

<Sindatur picks up the book he loaned to kirk55555 and starts flipping through it> Hey, where's pages 5-20 and 99-124 and 178-196...
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Old October 6 2012, 10:57 PM   #365
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

This thread is making me want to take out my farscape disks and start watching them, as I not watched the series.
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Old October 6 2012, 11:06 PM   #366
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Double post
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Old October 6 2012, 11:36 PM   #367
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Lindley wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Won't get Fooled again
That is one of the funniest episodes of the season, and highly arc-relevant too.

Seriously, stop reading ahead. Don't. If you're going to talk yourself out of watching all the best episodes because you think you know what they'll be about (you don't), why even bother?

"The Locket" is okay, but it's not nearly as good as the Princess trilogy or Won't Get Fooled.

You really should just watch everything. If there's a *really* bad one, we'll warn you. Otherwise, assume they're at least okay. (Beware of Dog is skippable but not bad.)
Here is Won't get Fooled Again's synopsis from wikipedia

Crichton wakes up on Earth after crashing Farscape One. He believes it to be an illusion, as in A Human Reaction, and tries to find a way out. As things become increasingly chaotic, he begins to lose his sanity.
It mentioned A Human Reaction, and the premise seems similar (except he seems to realise its fake immediately this thime). I didn't like A Human reaction, so it makes no sense to watch this one. I'll read a summary, like I did with A Human Reaction and the Princess trilogy to make sure I don't miss anything important to the overall plot. As for Beware of Dog, its a Chiana episode, so its an automatic skip.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
<Sindatur picks up the book he loaned to kirk55555 and starts flipping through it> Hey, where's pages 5-20 and 99-124 and 178-196...
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Old October 7 2012, 01:07 AM   #368
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post

Edit: Just read an in depth summary of the Princess trilogy. John gets together with the woman for political reasons, gets turned into a statue for some stupid reason that I didn't really understand, gets beheaded, but then fixed. Something weird happens to Moya when a weird person appears, and she tries to kill herself (or the weird guy makes it seem like thats what she's doing, the summaries were a page an episode and I just skimmed the pages at points), until the person stops it because Zhaan is "worthy". Scorpius apparenty has a cooling rod in his head where his brain should be. D'argo is in a relationship with Jar Jar. Aeryn is pretty pointless in the episode. It all turns out fine in the end. I saved myself several hours, and now I know what happened (I read more than what I just posted, I know about Moya/Zhaan escaping from Scorpius, I just posted the bigger plot points). Now, I can move on to good episodes.
I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely foolish to rely on a synopsis to determine whether or not you would like an episode. A synopsis loses all sense of the show. A synopsis is literally the stuff that happened. There's no tone, there's no rhythm, there's no character. There's not STUFF that makes a show unique.

A synopsis can turn ANYTHING into a boring thing.

You even say it here, "for reasons I don't really understand" MAYBE if you watched the episode you just MIGHT.

But, whatever... you claim you're enjoying the show... though, I don't know how when it seems like you're only watching 50% of it....
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Old October 7 2012, 01:43 AM   #369
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

I’m a sometimes lurker on The Trek BBS, and this thread inspired me to finally sign up for an account.

Hi kirk5555, I hope I don’t come off as creepy given that this is my first post, and I promise I’m not trying to tell you that your opinions are wrong or force you to change your mind. Farscape happens to be my very favorite series, so forgive me if I sound a little too passionate here.

I’m glad you’re enjoying the show, but it doesn’t sound like you’re on the same wavelength in terms of sensibilities. Case in point: you pretty much hated “Crackers Don’t Matter.” Now, of course no single episode of any series is universally liked by every fan, but the general consensus is that CDM pretty much is Farscape in microcosm. It’s hilarious, dark, campy, cracked out, and it takes a cliche TV sci-fi trope--in this case, crew goes space crazy--and executes it in a way that pushes way past anything you’re likely to see on Star Trek (the twist on “Humans Are Superior!,” D’Argo sadistically pinning Rygel down to stuff him full of crackers, John responding “I like the sound of that” when Head!Scorpius suggests keeping Chiana alive in order to rape her later, etc.) Underneath the comedy, there’s a very real sense that it doesn’t take much to push these people to the point of seriously hurting each other.

It’s not my absolute favorite episode, but I’ve probably seen it more times than any other, as it’s the one I’ll usually pop in if I’m in the mood for some Farscape but I’m not up to rewatching the whole series or even a particular arc.

As for Chiana, well, personally I liked her well enough my first time through but didn’t give her much thought, and it wasn’t until further watches that I really came to appreciate the character. Your hatred is obviously just one of those gut reactions that can’t be altered, so I won’t even try to debate it, though I’d like to offer an alternate point of view. While I’d very much disagree that Chiana is totally useless, in the context of this particular show I don’t see it as a bad thing at all that she’s often more trouble than she’s worth. This isn’t the Enterprise D supposedly staffed with only the best of the best; we’re dealing with a random, frequently incompetent group of desperate fugitives who often have no idea what the hell they’re doing--and that’s a big part of the fun! Chiana screws up, she behaves selfishly, she sometimes makes things worse, and she annoys the others, too. Early on, at least, they like her just enough not to toss her off Moya at the earliest opportunity. Still, even where you’re at she’s started to display some real growth. She made up for indirectly getting Aeryn stabbed by going to the Gammak base, she helped deliver Talyn, and twice she’s risked her own welfare for Zhaan’s sake. There’s an arc here, though it’s certainly your right to have no interest in it.

Finally, as to “Won’t Get Fooled Again” again versus “A Human Reaction,” you may very well end up hating both, but they are extremely different episodes unless you see basic plot similarities as the only and final word in fiction. In terms of tone and style, they could hardly be further apart, and though they do share some thematic concerns, the series is in no way content to just repeat itself. “A Human Reaction” is important in terms of character development (which it sounds like you mostly skipped through) and later plot complications, but “Won’t Get Fooled Again” is absolutely quintessential Farscape, running on all cylinders.

Last edited by KellynSE; October 7 2012 at 01:53 AM.
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Old October 7 2012, 02:12 AM   #370
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

The only way to win this thread is not to play

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Old October 7 2012, 04:55 AM   #371
Lindley
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Here is Won't get Fooled Again's synopsis from wikipedia

Crichton wakes up on Earth after crashing Farscape One. He believes it to be an illusion, as in A Human Reaction, and tries to find a way out. As things become increasingly chaotic, he begins to lose his sanity.
It mentioned A Human Reaction, and the premise seems similar (except he seems to realise its fake immediately this thime). I didn't like A Human reaction, so it makes no sense to watch this one.
First of all, Crichton gradually losing his sanity is one of the major arcs this season. If you haven't picked up on that yet it's because you have been skipping too much.

Second, WGFA is totally different than AHR. They aren't the same at all. AHR is played straight, mostly, while WGFA quickly descends into slapstick comedy and then continues even further into downright bizarre.

Let me be clear: up until this point, Farscape has had a lot of standalone episodes. That diminishes significantly from now on. Most episodes will be arc-relevant and many will be arc-critical.

Case in point: The Princess trilogy, and then WGFA, are in the first 4 episodes to feature a new race that becomes a major player in the series later on. You are completely missing their introduction because of a synopsis.
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Old October 7 2012, 05:51 AM   #372
JD
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

It took me a minute to remember which episode Won't Get Fooled Again, but now that I do I realize it is one of my favorite episode of the entire series. Seriously, don't skip it, it's a great episode, tons of fun, and if I remember correctly it does play a pretty big part in the arc of the show. You probably should be careful if you're going to be skipping episodes so much, you seem to be skipping some of the most important character and plot episodes. I don't remember the Princess trilogy that well, but I think it does play a pretty big role in the development of several of the characters, and their relationships. Plus it introduces one of the most important races in the later part of the show.
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Old October 7 2012, 10:25 AM   #373
Rowan Sjet
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

The only way to win this thread is not to play
Urgh, I'm beginning to agree.

Please stop missing episodes because of the synopsis, you're making me die a little on the inside.
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Old October 7 2012, 05:00 PM   #374
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Rowan Sjet wrote: View Post
The only way to win this thread is not to play
Urgh, I'm beginning to agree.

Please stop missing episodes because of the synopsis, you're making me die a little on the inside.
Yeah, I mean, honestly... I can get skipping "Taking the Stone" and other Worst of Farscape episodes, but watching season two without the Princess trilogy and "Won't Get Fooled Again" is a bit like just not watching season two at all.
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Old October 7 2012, 05:06 PM   #375
Greg Cox
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Here's the thing: a synopsis just gives you the bare bones of a plot, and plot is just one small part (and often not even the most important part) of any individual episode. Experiencing a good TV episode is about more than just finding out how the characters get from Point A to Point B: there's the atmosphere, the acting, the funny dialogue and bits of stage business, the visuals, the music, the pacing . . . all of which has more to do with determining whether an ep is worth watchng than just who did what where.

Plots are a dime a dozen. The execution is what matters.

Here's an example. "Boy fights dragon" is a plot, but that tells you nothing about what kind of story it is. Is it a lofty high fantasy saga? A gritty, sweaty barbarian adventure? A whimsical, pun-filled light fantasy? A snarky postmodern spoof of fairy tales? A religious allegory? A political satire?

A synopsis is not the whole story.
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