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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Old April 4 2012, 04:54 PM   #76
Jose Tyler
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Timo wrote: View Post
When have we ever seen those features simply disappear?
Never. Which is why it's up to us to decide whether it would be possible for them to appear, e.g. when Kirk opens a shutter in "Mark of Gideon"...

And those small rectangular shapes, some lit and some dark, all over the saucer and the engineering hull? Also windows. They were meant to look like windows. There were designed to look like windows.
Indeed. Things only get compicated when the "window" is of an odd shape or size (say, the big square things on top of the saucer rim, or the three big circles at bow). But those are probably windows as well, again because it would make little sense for a random selection of sensors to be "dark" while it makes perfect sense for a random selection of windows to be.

Windows that double as sensor ports sound extremely awkward,a s they would perform poorly in both roles. If there's sensor equipment there, it has to be close to the window, leaving no room for the alternate use. Or it has to be moveable, which is extremely awkward: the sensors should be in active position about 99% of the time, waiting for the unexpected, so it would be difficult to justify moving them out of position, like, ever. And what sort of a sensor would emit yellow light? (Well, the sort housed behind the three large domes of the ship, of course, but that's a different shade of yellow from the one seen behind the windows.)

Timo Saloniemi
Just taking a quick look at the Smithsonian Enterprise model, I count roughly 21 "windows" on the starboard side. A handful of the "windows" towards the aft section are for the observation area as seen in CotK. So that leaves 16 or 17 windows for lounges or crew uses. Considering the Constitution Class has a crew of @430 out in space for extended missions, 16 or so rooms with windows doesn't seem excessive. Also, I'm pretty sure the TNG Tech Manual talks about how some windows can be opened as evacuation and EVA points in an emergency. Scotty's lads have to have a chance to get out if things really go south. I'm thinking that sometimes a window is just a window...
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Old April 4 2012, 05:00 PM   #77
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Really, people! This whole windows as anything else but windows thing is getting just as silly as sinking the bridge into the B-C deck teardrop to make it face forward.

The bridge is offset 36 degrees, dammit!
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Old April 4 2012, 08:51 PM   #78
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Ya need to lobby T'Bonz to unban Captain Robert April. You clearly miss him
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Old April 4 2012, 10:14 PM   #79
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

PvtKtara wrote: View Post
Ya need to lobby T'Bonz to unban Captain Robert April. You clearly miss him
Wow, he's banned??



OT:
I suppose it wouldn't look like 10-Forward, but having a bunch of cross braces and beams and some windows would be pretty par for the course with TOS. There's pipes and beams all over the place. Probably not a ton of uninterrupted usable space, so put some windows and a few deluxe cabins.
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Old April 4 2012, 11:46 PM   #80
Mytran
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

What on earth did CRA get banned for?I've read his last few posts and they're hardly inflammatory stuff

Regarding the "windows as viewports", I am basingmy views in no small part on what we saw on TOS and movies - in other words, very rare use of viewport style windows, be that in cabins, lounges or whatever. Compare that to TNG, where viewports are everywhere! TOS on the other hand had a much more "submarine" style visual approach - yes there was the occassional viewport seen, but these were rare.
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Old April 5 2012, 01:06 AM   #81
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Forbin wrote: View Post
If Rand's quarters were on deck 12, why does her door say 3C 46? Hmmm?
Maybe it means Section 3, Deck C, Room 46. The number C in the hexadecimal numbering system is equivalent to 12 in the decimal system. I recall years ago in either my French class or Computer class the instructor stating that the French use 3 numbering systems: Octal (base 8), Decimal (base 10), and Hexadecimal (base 16). Maybe Starfleet uses hexadecimal instead of decimal.

So Section 3, Deck C, Room 46 in hexadecimal is equal to Section 3, Deck 12, Room 70 in decimal.

Just a thought,


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Old April 5 2012, 01:12 AM   #82
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Mytran wrote: View Post
What on earth did CRA get banned for?I've read his last few posts and they're hardly inflammatory stuff
I had no idea Captain Robert April got banned either. I just thought he was busy working on that Star Trek book he had as his avatar.


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Old April 5 2012, 01:48 AM   #83
BK613
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
If Rand's quarters were on deck 12, why does her door say 3C 46? Hmmm?
Maybe it means Section 3, Deck C, Room 46. The number C in the hexadecimal numbering system is equivalent to 12 in the decimal system. I recall years ago in either my French class or Computer class the instructor stating that the French use 3 numbering systems: Octal (base 8), Decimal (base 10), and Hexadecimal (base 16). Maybe Starfleet uses hexadecimal instead of decimal.

So Section 3, Deck C, Room 46 in hexadecimal is equal to Room 3, Deck 12, Room 70 in decimal.

Just a thought,


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For all we know, they could have swiped those labels off of existing doors on the Desilu lot. You know, like cutlery from the commissary.

They are part of the "appearance of complexity" that adds to the background believability. Like stardates, GNDN labels, patches on multicolored uniforms, and windows. Details that added to the verisimilitude but without the over-the-top forethought of a TNG Tech Manual.

The windows, of course, were not really intended to inform about the interior of the ship but to inform about the scale of the ship. As in, "Wow! Look at those windows! This thing is as tall as a twenty story building!"
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Old April 5 2012, 02:11 AM   #84
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Mytran wrote: View Post
What on earth did CRA get banned for?I've read his last few posts and they're hardly inflammatory stuff
As with most posters who were around for quite a long time, it's a long story. I'll leave it at that.
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Old April 6 2012, 04:23 PM   #85
Forbin
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

April is over at www.hobbytalk.com if anybody wants to say hi.
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Old October 7 2012, 01:35 AM   #86
Robert Comsol
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Mytran wrote: View Post
I'm glad the pylon issue has been raised - it's certainly a weird point in the construction of a Starship!

Regarding the in-universe naming of these decks, it only really occurs in three episodes:

Mudd’s Women: Kirk’s cabin is on this deck [i.e. 12] (apparently) and has a decent stretch of corridor adjoining it. As has been repeatedly pointed out, there is no way to squeeze this all into the pylon (horizontally anyway - thanks Timo for your usual skill in bursting the envelope!)

Enemy Within: Rand’s quarters are blatantly on this deck (G. T. Fisher calls for aid from an intercom) and even more corridor is visible prior to this on Evilkirk’s drunken ramble to her door. Regarding this ramble, why is Evilkirk even here? The presence of Rand’s cabin seems to take him almost by surprise, just a fortunate opportunity to be taken advantage of. I would postulate that he is going back to his cabin and just happens to pass her own along the way. In fact, at this point in the series, “Deck 12” is almost being treated as the main deck of the ship, hardly suitable if that deck were situated in the pylon neck.

Dagger Of The Mind: Here, Van Gelder is spotted on Deck 14, having (apparently) exited the Transporter Room and started roaming the corridors. There is not indication that he ever used a turbolift – if he had, wouldn’t he have gone somewhere more secluded? Or if his ultimate destination was in fact the bridge – why not there? To detour via the pylon neck is an odd choice, even for him! ...

So, if the lower saucer rim deck is deck 7 (personally I think deck 5 is more accurate but that’s another debate) then the pylon takes on decks 8, 9 and 10, leaving the Engineering hull to begin fresh at deck 11. Deck 12 is then situated slightly down into the secondary hull, plenty of space for everything seen on screen!

P.S.
If the pylon neck decks end at deck 10, this is similar to the lowest of the saucer decks. Maybe the emergency separation actually occurs at the bottom of the pylon instead of the top? This would have the added bonus of keeping all the numbered decks together…

P.P.S.
I just realised, this last bit has been thought of before, in the Star Trek Officer's Manual:


(click for link to full size - thanks to http://www.cygnus-x1.net for this resource)
This seems to be the thread I was looking for and I hope Mytran forgives that I'm cannibalizing his post as a starting point.

A long time ago I was biased because of the diagram in The Star Trek Officer's Manual believing that saucer separation would require a section of the neck to come along with the saucer, I now believe this to be different and its just the saucer that separates, leaving the engineering hull with the neck section behind.
The Making of Star Trek only provided deck numbers for the primary hull and deck 11 was the lowest, no deck numbers were given for the engineering hull (I believe for TMP the lowest one for the engineering hull was 18 or 19).

Therefore, I believe the engineering decks start at the top of the neck or pylon section with engineering deck 1. According to a cutaway I did back in the 1980's (I used the pylon's / engineering hull's windows as reference for deck height) I arrived at 18 engineering decks and decks 12 and 14 would just be in the middle of the engineering hull and there'd even be windows that could match the windows of Kirk's provisional quarters (while his own were renovated; this is "Mudd's Women" that just takes place shortly after WNM and everything is in the process or just recently has been upgraded) - one is circular, one rectangular (on the port side the windows may just be square...).

Then why don't they say "engineering deck"? Since there are no decks exceeding deck 11 in the saucer, deck 12 can only be an engineering deck.

Then why doesn't Spock say "engineering deck 2" in "Enterprise Incident" when he accompanies the Romulan Commander to her quarters (in the neck)?
In "Conscience of the King" Kevin Riley stole a phaser from "H deck". "The Doomsday Machine" established that the shuttlecraft hangar is not just on deck 1X but that this entire engineering deck is labeled "hangar deck" - or "H deck".
"E deck" might be the deck with the "Engineering Section" (not to be confused with the "Engine Control Room" in the saucer) and deck 2 in the saucer might also have an alphabetic designation. Thus the turbolift computer understands that Spock wants to travel to engineering deck 2.

Bob
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Old October 7 2012, 06:14 AM   #87
Albertese
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

^^^

Seems a little wacky to me, but then, I seem to recall looking at RL ship plans from about a century ago where decks were labeled using such convoluted schemes, so it's probably not without precedent.

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Old October 7 2012, 07:36 AM   #88
Mytran
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

That's some fine extrapolation! (especially H-deck and E-Deck). However I need to add another fly to the ointment:

In The Naked Time Uhura reports that Sulu is running around in "level 2 corridor 3". If this "level 2" is "Engineering Level 2" (otherwise wouldn't she say "Deck 2") then there are a LOT of corridors crammed into the top of the pylon - impossibly so
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Old October 7 2012, 04:18 PM   #89
blssdwlf
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Well we do know that Engineering has many decks.

"Where No Man Has Gone Before"
CREWMAN: Engineering deck three, can you give damage report?
"The Conscience of the King"
KIRK: Lieutenant Kevin Riley in communications, I wish to have him transferred down to the engineering decks.
"The Corbomite Maneuver"
KIRK: Helmsman, engineering decks could have been faster, too.
"The Enemy Within"
KIRK: The lower levels. The Engineering deck.
...
SCOTT: Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck.
And there are references to decks in general by number such as "Deck 12", "Deck 14", "Deck 8" and also "H Deck", "B Deck".

In my personal view, I think there are probably multiple deck schemes going on.
  • A named deck, such as "Engineering Deck" can contain multiple levels. There are also multiple "Engineering Decks", most likely because of the Engineering section.
  • Decks 1-20 (or more) are probably all decks, top to bottom. In my version of the Enterprise, Deck 10 is the neck area. Deck 11 is the top of the Engineering section for me. This is partly due to how many decks I can fit in on the Primary hull.
  • Alpha letter decks are probably primary hull decks - since "B Deck" seems to be a good place to sabotage impulse engines while in orbit in "Court Martial".


Anyway, that's just my thinking and YMMV

Last edited by blssdwlf; October 7 2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old October 7 2012, 04:39 PM   #90
Albertese
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Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

^^^
So, where is B deck? Immediately beneath the bridge? Why would that be a good place to sabotage the impulse engines from? If it's some place closer to the impulse engines, then why would it be called "B deck"?

Also, the WNMHGB reference... does it have to be "Engineering Deck 3" as in the third of several Engineering Decks, or could it be "Engineering, Deck 3" as in one of several Engineering stations, one of which happens to be located on Deck 3?
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