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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 5 2012, 10:43 PM   #31
Gary Mitchell
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
If FC had been a Star Trek mini-series or something spanning multiple episodes, I could see bringing in characters like Sisko to flesh out the story. But for a single film, adding Sisko (a character that many TNG fans might not even know about) would have just overcomplicated things.
That didn't stop the Admiral Janeway cameo in Nemesis. That could have been any admiral. I wasn't talking about making Sisko a major part of the story, but wild horses wouldn't keep Sisko away from a battle with the Borg. He not only has issues with them but he also helped design and build Defiant. He could have stayed with the ship while Worf went off to help out on Enterprise.
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Old October 5 2012, 10:47 PM   #32
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Well, some people in the thread are talking about Sisko having a large role in the movie, which would be a problem. If we just saw him as a random captain during the battle, that's another thing entirely. Since he was not there, however, I just assume that the Defiant was called into action while they were away from DS9, so Sisko didn't have the chance to get on board.
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Old October 5 2012, 10:53 PM   #33
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

I agree, with others if we were to have any other character from DSN it should have been O'Brien. Same goes for Nemesis, it would have been nice to see the Chief making a cameo at Riker's wedding.
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Old October 6 2012, 01:33 AM   #34
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
.

I really don't think the scene with Lily needs to be changed though. I dunno, maybe I just like a female support character that isn't inevitably a romantic interest for the main male protagonist.
The problem with Lily is that her presence made the rest of the crew more almost unnecessary. I mean you have Beverly, who knows Picard more than anyone else and is closer to him than all the others, telling Lily some garbage like "when the captain makes up his mind it is final, blah, blah, blah." Nonsense. Here is Picard who needs someone to get through to him and Beverly takes a pass? Beverly should have marched right in to the captain office and told Jean Luc exactly what he needed to hear. But TPTB dismisses her and allows some stranger whom Picard met five seconds ago to give him the lecture. And he listens to her! Really?!?

Why did TPTB do this? Did they do it because it makes sense in terms of the story and the relationship of the characters? Hell, no. They did it because TPTB made it clear that only Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner mattered when it came to the TNG films. TPTB always talked up the greatness of Stewart's acting and thus probably wanted some accalimed actress to stand toe-to-toe with him when giving Picard his dressing down. So they went with Alfre Woodard because God forbid if they gave Gates McFadden something to do, particularly if that something meant sharing a scene with The Great Patrick Stewart. The audcaity of such a concept.

Just one of the many flaws in this very flawed film that is overrated by far too many Star Trek fans. But I can especially never get past how shabbily TPTB treated any of the actors not named Stewat and Spiner. Even worse was the response of Trek fans at the time who justified those decisions by unintenionally dissing the rest of the cast as not being as good as the Big Two. Who cares if they weren't as good? They were good enough for seven successful seasons of the TV show so why throw them under the bus as soon as they do films? I'm not a huge fan of Firefly but I took notice that how in Serenity Whedon spread the wealth and gave everyone something interesting to do or at least interesting lines and moments (even though not all actors on that show were exactly equal in terms of ability). He remembered that all the characters mattered.

Oh, what was the original discussion about? That's right. Sisko.

No freakin' was was a TNG film going to use a DS9 character or an actor mostly associated with DS9. VOY actors? No problem. They used two of them in TNG films, including Mulgrew playing Janeway. But a DS9 character? Once a redheaded stepchild always a redheaded stepchild. Early on there were rumors that Sisko was going to make an appearance in a scene giving Worf permission to take the Defiant to the battle. But if that was an ever a possibility I'm sure Berman made sure it didn't make the final draft. Hell, Berman didn't even tell Ira steven Behr that they were trashing the Defiant in the film. That tells you all you need to know.
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Old October 6 2012, 03:36 PM   #35
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

I think it would have been some interesting dynamics to have Sisco, Worf and O'Brien a part of FC. you would have someone who was already a captain who could take over the ship with Picards increasing instability and I think by this point Sisco has managed to accept his past, this would also give Picard a strong personality to play off and to clash with.
Worf would be effectivley stuck between two masters (as both of these he looks up to).
O'Brian would be helping Laforge and riker on Earth in place of Reg no major stories for him but would be interesting to see as he works with backward technology in a similar way to working with DS9 tech.
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Old October 6 2012, 05:32 PM   #36
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

An O'brien cameo would make sense and add to the story given his past on TNG. Sisko coming on board would just be a plot distraction.
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Old October 6 2012, 05:46 PM   #37
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
An O'brien cameo would make sense and add to the story given his past on TNG. Sisko coming on board would just be a plot distraction.

Agree. Kinda. O'Brien shouldn't have been in anything other than a cameo as well. He could have been alongside Sisko as they wished Worf good luck before he boarded the Defiant to take on the Borg. Besides Sisko didn't need any closure regarding the Borg anyway. He got that in the first episode of DS9.
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Old October 6 2012, 06:23 PM   #38
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

NKemp3 wrote: View Post
Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
An O'brien cameo would make sense and add to the story given his past on TNG. Sisko coming on board would just be a plot distraction.

Agree. Kinda. O'Brien shouldn't have been in anything other than a cameo as well. He could have been alongside Sisko as they wished Worf good luck before he boarded the Defiant to take on the Borg. Besides Sisko didn't need any closure regarding the Borg anyway. He got that in the first episode of DS9.
We saw Picard work through his issues in both Family and I, Borg yet he still fell apart in First Contact.
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Old October 6 2012, 06:25 PM   #39
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
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Old October 6 2012, 06:33 PM   #40
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
What makes you think series Sisko and movie Sisko wouldn't also be two different people?
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Old October 6 2012, 07:57 PM   #41
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.

Ha-ha! So true, so true.
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Old October 6 2012, 08:11 PM   #42
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

BillJ wrote: View Post
Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
What makes you think series Sisko and movie Sisko wouldn't also be two different people?
Because they wouldn't have to change Sisko's style to be an action hero captain. He's already punched more people than all other Starfleet captains combined.
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Old October 6 2012, 10:03 PM   #43
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
Action Picard already existed on the show. Remember Starship Mine?
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Old October 7 2012, 02:56 AM   #44
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

BillJ wrote: View Post
What makes you think series Sisko and movie Sisko wouldn't also be two different people?
Because DS9 was still in production when FC was made. To change Sisko's basic characterization for the movie would be impossible without also changing it on the TV series. TNG was off the air, though, so the writers felt free to do major changes with the TNG characters. Unfortunately.

Last edited by CoveTom; October 7 2012 at 03:16 AM.
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Old October 7 2012, 03:22 AM   #45
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Re: Captain Sisko in First Contact

Dream wrote: View Post
Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
Action Picard already existed on the show. Remember Starship Mine?
He didn't say anything about "Action Picard".. He showed his action chops several times in the series when it was necessary, so that's not even the issue.

The issue is that Picard in the series is a thoughtful, reserved, intelligent person who respects all life and respects the chain of command, yet Movie Picard is a dumb, overly emotional, aggressive, bloodthirsty, dune buggying idiot who wont hesitate to ignore his orders if it suits him.
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