RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,562
Posts: 5,402,104
Members: 24,864
Currently online: 561
Newest member: paddy00grenham

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Angels Take Manhattan"
The girl who waited 100 64.52%
Something borrowed 35 22.58%
Average 10 6.45%
Is it bad that I really miss this? 3 1.94%
You're Scottish, fry something 7 4.52%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 4 2012, 09:44 AM   #361
Starkers
Admiral
 
Starkers's Avatar
 
Location: feeling a chill...
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
You don't see it but I think most people do. There's something of the night about this Doctor.
There's "something of the night" in every Doctor. Four had his deadly serious moments, too, so did Three and One was officious and dour for most of his run.

I'm only reacting like this because it feels to me like people have too easily forgotten that there were eight other Doctors before the crop we're discussing, and the newbies are all light-years behind a couple of the old guard in terms of sheer awesomeness. In my eyes, that makes the debate about whether Nine, Ten or Eleven is better or more mature or what have you pointless. None of them will ever match up to Four. None of them will ever match up to Three.

(deep breath) Rant over. Back to the sub-topic.

There's been a Regression of maturity. Nine was most mature, but with a frat boy streak. Ten's maturity came with screeching and whining. And Eleven...sorry...is a man-child with ADHD. It's just blatant.
I agree with you re the classic Doctors, hell we've yet to see a modern Doctor treat their companion quite as viciously as Seven treated Ace in Fenric, and yes it was to save her life but still...

I'd disagree about Smith though, personally I just see him as a cantankerous old man trapped in a young man's body, yeah he's been a bit ADHD of late, but I thought he was quite restrained in Manhattan, and I get the impression that his Doctor is going to calm down a little when Clara shows up.

Nine was great, and I've yet to see either Smith or Tennant come close to the sheer hate/terror he showed in Dalek, but by the same token, I somehow doubt Eccleston would have been able to play the meeting with Sarah Jane with anywhere near the emotion/exuberance of Tennant.
__________________
Werewolves on the Moon Now with Guardians of the Galaxy review

The Devils of Amber Street
Starkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 10:20 AM   #362
DAYoung
Commander
 
DAYoung's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, AUS
View DAYoung's Twitter Profile
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Good: snappy one-liners, some unusually good acting from Gillan, moving use of young Amelia, evil cherubs, nice use of Doctor's awkward preening.

Bad: poor plotting, clumsy direction at key moments (e.g. Rory and tombstone), ham-fisted characterisation in parts (e.g. Doctor as one-dimensional needy loner).

Ugly: Statue of Liberty (i.e. implausible and very badly executed), very rushed (a Moffat trademark).

Nothing in this to rival Ten and Rose or Donna (for very different reasons, obviously). And not a hint of the authoritative madness of Four.

This is all a more dispassionate assessment. When I suspend my disbelief, I still enjoy it. Even when mediocre, Doctor Who combines the silly and somber, irreverent and dignified, in interesting ways.
__________________
philosopher & author
www.damonyoung.com.au
Out December 2012: Philosophy in the Garden
DAYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 12:16 PM   #363
The Mirrorball Man
Vice Admiral
 
The Mirrorball Man's Avatar
 
Location: Switzerland
View The Mirrorball Man's Twitter Profile
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

DAYoung wrote: View Post
When I suspend my disbelief, I still enjoy it. Even when mediocre, Doctor Who combines the silly and somber, irreverent and dignified, in interesting ways.
Ha! That deserves to be quoted.
__________________
Check out my deviantArt gallery!
The Mirrorball Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 04:51 PM   #364
Mr Awe
Rear Admiral
 
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post

The Doctor didn't replace himself with a lookalike robot. The Tessalect always was shot, he was just mistaken about it being the Doctor.
Exactly, the tombstone was always fake, he was just mistaken about it being a real tombstone with Rory and Amy beneath it.

Mr Awe
Unless you are wrong, in which case New York has blown up. That's the point you're missing. You could be right, however, the Doctor, who is usually pretty good about figuring these things out, thinks you are wrong.
The Doctor could've blown up the universe by saving himself using that logic!

My point is more that the authors can easily decide to retrieve Amy and Rory if they want to. There's a very simple out.

Mr Awe
Mr Awe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 05:12 PM   #365
Dac
Commodore
 
Dac's Avatar
 
Location: The Essex wastes...
View Dac's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dac
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

FWIW, that pic of young Amy does nothing for me. Nonsensical mawkish crap only warrants one feeling from me, and it isn't sadness. I was hoping the connection with the 11th hour would be more significant, what with Rory's Nurse badge stating he became one in 1991, no modern cars are around yet they have laptops and touchscreen phones I was expecting a big twist answer/reveal there. But there wasn't. The only reason its there is because Moffat said it felt right, rather than being a valid dramatic point. It's just there to push a button, not to advance/close a plot.

It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me. I love Deep Space Nine. I love Battlestar. I love TNG. I love Breaking Bad. Why does Doctor Who always piss me off when everyone is saying how much I should love it?
Dac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 05:24 PM   #366
The Mirrorball Man
Vice Admiral
 
The Mirrorball Man's Avatar
 
Location: Switzerland
View The Mirrorball Man's Twitter Profile
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Dac wrote: View Post
It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me. I love Deep Space Nine. I love Battlestar. I love TNG. I love Breaking Bad. Why does Doctor Who always piss me off when everyone is saying how much I should love it?
Different people like different things?
__________________
Check out my deviantArt gallery!
The Mirrorball Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 10:41 PM   #367
MistbornFreak
Cadet
 
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Something that gets is that people complain about the giant Liberty Angel or whatever it's called, but not about one of the Angels in Blink managing to cross a busy road next to a police office in a city and hide outside the window in broad daylight, just because Sally blinked? After that, and the fact that Angels can move about so easily without being seen by birds/insects/other random creatures, the giant Liberty Angel isn't such a stretch for me anymore. Also, I'm not sure that it was the actual Statue of Liberty, seeing as the actual thing most certainly isn't made of stone, it's probably just a mock thing made by the Angels, although that was never mentioned in the episode. Really should've been a two parter.

Still, despite the episode's flaws, it was able to suspend my disbelief, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. :3
MistbornFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2012, 11:39 PM   #368
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Basically, the "rules" of the Weeping Angels change from episode to episode. Sometimes they displace you in time. Other times they just kill you. According to River in this latest episode, the Angels "took over" the city's statues.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2012, 03:24 AM   #369
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Dac wrote: View Post
what with Rory's Nurse badge stating he became one in 1991,
Moffat himself has stated that he never bothered to look at Rory's badge since it had no plot relevance, and thus the date it gave went completely overlooked.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2012, 08:57 AM   #370
Starkers
Admiral
 
Starkers's Avatar
 
Location: feeling a chill...
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me. I love Deep Space Nine. I love Battlestar. I love TNG. I love Breaking Bad. Why does Doctor Who always piss me off when everyone is saying how much I should love it?
Different people like different things?
Exactly, it really would be a dull world otherwise. I love DS9, and really like TNG but I could write reams on my issues with Nu BSG I like firefly but I don't really get the 'best show evah' malarky, and there are plenty of accliamed shows I've given up on and crappy shows I've stuck with cos I had a soft spot for them.

I'd never tell someone they should love Who*, I just think anyone who consistently doesn't like it at all, who finds few or no redeeming features about it should, in the words of Why Don't You (and 5 completely pointless points to the first person to identify the WDY/Who connection) "Turn off the tv and go do something more interesting instead."

But no, Dac, I don't think there's anything wrong with you!

* The only show I proselytize about is Blakes 7. You will love Blakes 7, or else...
__________________
Werewolves on the Moon Now with Guardians of the Galaxy review

The Devils of Amber Street
Starkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2012, 01:41 PM   #371
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post

Exactly, the tombstone was always fake, he was just mistaken about it being a real tombstone with Rory and Amy beneath it.

Mr Awe
Unless you are wrong, in which case New York has blown up. That's the point you're missing. You could be right, however, the Doctor, who is usually pretty good about figuring these things out, thinks you are wrong.
The Doctor could've blown up the universe by saving himself using that logic!
Which brings me back to my other point that the Doctor has a certain sense of what a fixed point is. With his own death, he didn't quite realize it at first, but he figured it out (and he figured out that it did not merely involve using the tesselect, but that it required to fake his own death and maintain a lower profile). Here, he's figured out that the fixed point involves Rory and Amy growing old and dying.

Actually, it might be more helpful to think of this as crossing your own time stream rather than changing a fixed point.

My point is more that the authors can easily decide to retrieve Amy and Rory if they want to. There's a very simple out.
If the argument is simply that the writers can cop out, I'm not disagreeing with you. If the argument is that the more logical result of the episode is that this isn't permanent, that's where the disagreement arises. Certainly, if the writers want to bring them back, they are welcome to use any reason they choose (including this one).
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2012, 02:02 AM   #372
Samurai8472
Vice Admiral
 
Samurai8472's Avatar
 
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

http://www.randomhouse.co.uk/edition.../9781448141333







I'm going to rip out the last page
Samurai8472 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2012, 02:09 AM   #373
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

I really loved the bit where the Doctor always rips out the final page of a book because he doesn't want the story to end. That was a beautiful notion, and so emblematic of the series' longevity.
__________________

Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2012, 02:27 AM   #374
Wereghost
Commodore
 
Wereghost's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
Warning: It's not actually the same story as the one referenced in TATM.
__________________
Time is the boss of me.
Wereghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2012, 03:02 AM   #375
Cutter John
Rear Admiral
 
Cutter John's Avatar
 
Location: Beyond the wall of sleep, just south of Seattle.
Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Someone so needs to remove the DW logo and Photoshop a spine and back cover so I can paste it onto an old paperback.
__________________
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant."
Cutter John is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.