Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

[Guy Gardener]

Is Cyclops still insane?

And was he ever insane more so than Drunk?

insanity suggests atypical actions.

Drunkenness suggests acting like you've always wanted to if consequences were meaningless.

[Nick Ryder]

Drunk with powah.

Or... drunk with bad writing.

[Guy Gardener]

Drunk with powah of course.

But drunk while writing bad makes sense as well.

[Nick Ryder]

I got the distinct impression that for the past few years, most of the writers really really did not like Cyclops and kept finding ways to make him completely unsympathetic and unlikeable.

I honestly thought he was going to die in this one - I really did. Like they did so much character assassination to him that the "cyclops" we saw in those Marvel Now promos was some other mutant - after all there are "More Mutants" again.

But seeing that helmet he was wearing in that "jail" scene - maybe that helmet thingy he wears is like a lojack - they can shut down his powers if they want to.

The characters I really sort of feel bad for are Namor and Emma Frost - Emma spent over a decade as a 'hero' and it seems like everyone's head was stuck in the 80s when they write her - oh she HAS to be a villaness... that's when she was the bestest! I dunno, honestly I liked her as a reformed 'bad girl'. Now it just comes off as 'we only kept Emma heroic until Jean Grey or someone like her came back' - so all we had to do was change the hair color from red to blonde and we could recycle old ideas.

I really was hoping for Emma to take over things on Utopia - I really couldn't see her moving to the Jean Grey Institute - even though it had been stated repeatedly that she thought of herself as a teacher first and foremost "freedom fighter" was secondary.

Namor - well he's gone heroic and 'baddie" for a while - but its like fuck, those Atlaneans just can't catch a break.

[Hound of UIster]

I'm sure Bendis will revert Emma back to the White Queen of the Hellfire Club. It'll probably clear out Kilgore as the Black King.

[Nick Ryder]

Which just smacks me of lazy writing - I mean, she was a pretty decent "Grey" hat hero. Not entirely shining pinnacle of goodness, but not super villaness either. AvsX really a horrible storyline - basically with the intention that "Avengers=Good, X-Men=Not so good." I mean since when have the Avengers even encountered a Phoenix, heck Rachel Grey wandered around England as the Phoenix for years! No Avengers got in her face then. Even WITH all that reality warping stuff that happened in those Excalibur comics too! You think they'd start going "well gee maybe all that weird shit in England is because they had a Phoenix with them."

I also think it's pretty crappy how Rachel was more or less ignored thoughout this whole thing - she was a Phoenix for a goodly part of the late 80s-90s and even had a whole frickin' Shi Ar attack squad after her! Killed the entire Gray family in one strike! And the Avengers didn't get involved...

I'm STILL looking forward to Marvel NOW - I do like that finally they're kind of mainstreaming the mutants - but I still feel like Emma, Scott and Namor and especially the Rasputins have gotten shafted pretty horribly. Scott was right. Cap was wrong OR at least maybe not 'wrong' in that he over-reacted.

[kirk55555]

They didn't really get shafted, atleast not with their fates, story wise. Magik stuck some avengers in hell, basically. Colossus beat Spider-Man until his blood splattered on Collossus's face. Emma either really injured or killed a guy for lying about something, and had half the mutants on utopia worshiping her. They also all took over the earth. The avengers didn't make them do that, and for about 75% of the time, the Phoenix didn't make them do it, either. They should be wanted criminals.

Now, the writers may have screwed them (although I honeslty think something like this has been building since House of M), but at this point, just from an in universe perspective, the 5 phoenix mutants should just get locked up. I'm also not too sure about rachel needing to be involved more than she was. I don't think she can really be counted as the same kind of Phoenix. She obviously didn't have the full, pretty sentient, Phoenix Force, or she would have gone crazy, like every phoenix host (not just on earth) has. She had a weaker version, or just one without the mind altering properties, but she was not dealing with the same creature/force of nature that was in AvX. I don't think her will to resist the destructive impulses of the real phoenix would be stronger than Jean Grey's, the 5 or Hope's, so I would just assume that her version was different, and that she would have turned just as evil if she had been effected by it (although she would have been better initally, I doubt she would have stuck anyone in hell/limbo on earth).

[Turtletrekker]

Namor's turn as a fugitive will be short-lived. He will be featured in New Avengers, which will focus on Bendis' "Illumunati" group. Interestingly, Black Panther will now be a part of the group, despite his current enimity with Namor. Hickman said that the first arc will deal with a new threat to Wakanda, so perhaps Namor will balance the destroy/save scales in Wakanda's eyes.

[Mr Light]

I agree it's too bad Rachel wasn't involved in the story more, and I barely know the character. That could have been a cool plot twist in #12 to defeat them, using Rachel, since she basically had barely been in the series to that point!

[Admiral_Young]

The glaring omission of Nathan after X-Sanction to me is really inexcusable to me. He should have been a big part in this story, given his training and guardianship of Hope and the fact that he is Scott's son. I agree as well that Rachel should have been used more as well...Aaron kind of brought her into the conflict in Wolverine and the X-Men, but she needed to be utilized more in the event.

[Guy Gardener]

I think the real glaring excepting is Franklin Richards and his mate GALACTUS who are just kicking like the the solar system is a mancave in the first act of a cosmic buddy movie.

But then, they didn't want to use the Infinity Gems either.

[Admiral_Young]

Agreed on that as well...there were several items/people that both teams could have used that they failed to.

[Mr Light]

Cable is alive but in a coma now, right? It's bad enough they ressurected him so quickly, give him a few years off, says I...

I never thought of that, that would have been awesome if they whipped out Galactus or the Infinity Gems to take out the Dark Phoenix!!! Man, there's so many awesome 11th hour twists they could have done, what they went with was so BORING.

[Guy Gardener]

Oh, I actually meant there was canonical reference to them not wanting to use the infinity gems in one issue. They said something like two all-powerful cosmic forces duking it out on the planet is a sure way to blow up the planet. they wanted to calm shit down down not escalate matters.

Is the Dreaming Celestial still in Central Park, what about the Eternals?

[MNM]

Hound of UIster wrote:

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I'm sure Bendis will revert Emma back to the White Queen of the Hellfire Club.

Nah, he'll have Emma as leader of the X-men again withn a year. Which is good, she hasnt been a bad guy since the 80s.

It'll probably clear out Kilgore as the Black King.

Though anything that does that is welcome.