officers are called 'sir' - Page 7

Ian Keldon · October 3 2012, 03:40 PM

horatio83 wrote:

Lovely anti-intellectualism.

As opposed to what? Your intellectual elitism?

Screw the philosopher, hail the soldier.
You ever read Hamlet? Probably not but if you actually have you might have realized that there are two guys left in the ending, the soldier AND the intellectual.

I'm well aware of that. The only "intellectuals" I'm decrying are those who don't realize that their world of the mind does, indeed must stand on the shoulders of the "down to earth" world that does all the drudge work (including defense) that makes their ivory tower existence possible.

About your jingoist remarks concerning the great USA having protected ungrateful Euroscum from the grips of Stalin,

Never mind Stalin...he wasn't the first thing Europe had to be protected from in the 20th century...that would be a little nation that just couldn't manage not to make a mess of everybody else's nations not once, but twice...a little nation called Germany. Maybe you've heard of it?

no American soldier died in the process. Nuclear weapon did the job.

They were still willing to die for you. By your own words, you wouldn't be willing to do the same for them.

So who is the better man?

Talking about anti-intellectualism, only pathetic creatures who have not achieved anything in their life and nothing to be proud of feel pride concerning the achievements of others, the anonymous social as such, the nation or however you wanna call it.
I admire and abhor many people but pride and shame are personal feelings.

Without those nations and nationalists, you would not have the freedom to sit there and insult their honor and their sacrifices.

You can't escape that fact.

horatio83 · October 3 2012, 03:49 PM

Nationalism hasn't created 60 years of peace in Europe, it has created two world wars. Not that I expect some jingoist militaristic right-winger who lives in an anti-intellectual, post-factual world to understand this.
Bad trolling attempt by the way. Unlike you I am not a nationalist who gets wet pants when hearing the name of the nation he lives in due to the accident of birth so you cannot insult or provoke me via saying something bad about it. Revealed your lack of empathy, your lack of ability to think about how or what another guy thinks. It is not a weak word by the way, any good general (to bring in your favourite topic of wars, guns and soldiers) has to be empathic, has to be able to think like the enemy thinks.

iguana_tonante · October 3 2012, 04:09 PM

Ian Keldon wrote:

There's nothing wrong with feeling pride about your nation when you are a citizen of a great nation, such as most Western nations and many Eastern ones. Conversely, if you are a member of a bad nation you SHOULD feel shame at the fact.

Lulz. Good nations? Bad nations? What is this, elementary school? I guess US good, Germany bad, right? What about France? Meh? And the UK? They were baddies, but now they are buddies. So I guess... so-so? Wait, wait! Riddle me this: Gabon. Good or bad?

Ian Keldon wrote:

Oh, and horatio, the only reason keyboard philosophers (You know the type...) are able to sit and badmouth great nations and the militaries that protect them (and sometimes entire ungrateful foreign nations) is because better men (and women) than they were willing to offer their time, effort, and even lives if necessary in their defense.

Stay classy. But what should I expect from an ungrateful American? If it wasn't for Christoper Columbus, you'd be all speaking Injun!

(To anybody who's not Ian Keldon: I hope paradoxical intent is clear in my post. No offence intended. Well, except against boorish jingoism: in that case, the offence is fully intended.)

beamMe · October 3 2012, 07:29 PM

Ian Keldon wrote:

...that would be a little nation that just couldn't manage not to make a mess of everybody else's nations not once, but twice...a little nation called Germany. Maybe you've heard of it?

Perhaps it would do you some good if you cracked open a history book once in a while.
Germany was not responsible for the first world war. It didn't do anything to prevent that war, but it didn't start it.

T'Girl · October 3 2012, 08:11 PM

beamMe wrote:

Germany was not responsible for the first world war.

That whole invasion of Belgium, and then on into nothern France? Probably someone elses armies right?

Prior to the German invasion of these countries there was no "First World War."

MacLeod · October 3 2012, 08:13 PM

From memory the catalyst for WWI was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in the city of Sarejevo by Bosnian Serb.

And some would say that it was the Treaty of Versailles and some of the provisions in it that some nations held stronger viewpoints than othes that allowed a feeling of ill will to foster in Germany, leading to WWII.

beamMe · October 3 2012, 10:04 PM

T'Girl wrote:

beamMe wrote:

Germany was not responsible for the first world war.

That whole invasion of Belgium, and then on into nothern France? Probably someone elses armies right?

Prior to the German invasion of these countries there was no "First World War."

Yeah, just ignore everything else that was going on back then.

iguana_tonante was right about your MO.

bluedana · October 4 2012, 02:10 AM

And none of this has anything at all to do with the topic, Enterprise, or Trek in general. So, please get back on topic, thanks.

Nerys Myk · October 5 2012, 12:00 AM

Yes, sir! Right away, ma'am!

iguana_tonante · October 5 2012, 12:08 AM

Signorsì, signora!

Xhiandra · October 5 2012, 02:32 PM

Ian: I owe my freedom (and indeed my continued existence) to philosophers such as Diderot and Spinoza, not to some military-minded zealots.
And I suspect you do, too.

You mention German invasion of my country? They did not invade because they were German, they invaded because they were bellicists.
their weapons weren't a philosopher's (pens), but a soldier's (guns), their chants not "cogito ergo sum", but "gott mitt uns".
The same chant is now rising from across the Atlantic and it's no less scary in english than in german.

So, no, I will not idealise military might.

HopefulRomantic · October 6 2012, 06:34 AM

Folks, seriously, bluedana has already asked for everyone to stay on topic. Please take your non-Enterprise, non-use of "sir" discussion to an appropriate forum, which is not here. Okay? Thanks.

Bry_Sinclair · October 9 2012, 10:01 AM

Off topic post removed, my bad.

Jhubelle · October 15 2012, 04:54 AM

Female officers in the US military are addressed as ma'am, not sir. I was actually in the military, and I can tell you... calling a female officer "sir" is a bad idea. It gets you in trouble.

Starfleet was based on the US Navy, so it is perfectly appropriate for female Starfleet officers to be addressed as ma'am.

I won't go into the "but Starfleet isn't military" debate because that's pointless.

October 3 2012, 03:49 PM	#92
horatio83 Commodore	Re: officers are called 'sir' Nationalism hasn't created 60 years of peace in Europe, it has created two world wars. Not that I expect some jingoist militaristic right-winger who lives in an anti-intellectual, post-factual world to understand this. Bad trolling attempt by the way. Unlike you I am not a nationalist who gets wet pants when hearing the name of the nation he lives in due to the accident of birth so you cannot insult or provoke me via saying something bad about it. Revealed your lack of empathy, your lack of ability to think about how or what another guy thinks. It is not a weak word by the way, any good general (to bring in your favourite topic of wars, guns and soldiers) has to be empathic, has to be able to think like the enemy thinks. __________________ The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer. - former US Secretary of State and unconvicted war criminal Henry Kissinger

October 3 2012, 08:13 PM	#96
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: officers are called 'sir' From memory the catalyst for WWI was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in the city of Sarejevo by Bosnian Serb. And some would say that it was the Treaty of Versailles and some of the provisions in it that some nations held stronger viewpoints than othes that allowed a feeling of ill will to foster in Germany, leading to WWII. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

October 4 2012, 02:10 AM	#98
bluedana Moderator Location: on the raggedy edge with bluedana	Re: officers are called 'sir' And none of this has anything at all to do with the topic, Enterprise, or Trek in general. So, please get back on topic, thanks. __________________ Fall seven times. Stand up eight. -- Japanese proverb.

October 5 2012, 12:00 AM	#99
Nerys Myk Admiral Location: House of Kang, now with ridges	Re: officers are called 'sir' Yes, sir! Right away, ma'am! __________________ Nerys Myk's Midnight In Never Land A novel of Dark Fantasy @ Amazon.com

October 5 2012, 12:08 AM	#100
iguana_tonante Vice Admiral Location: Italy, EU	Re: officers are called 'sir' Signorsì, signora! __________________ Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.

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ABOUT US

October 5 2012, 02:32 PM	#101
Xhiandra Lieutenant Commander	Re: officers are called 'sir' Ian: I owe my freedom (and indeed my continued existence) to philosophers such as Diderot and Spinoza, not to some military-minded zealots. And I suspect you do, too. You mention German invasion of my country? They did not invade because they were German, they invaded because they were bellicists. their weapons weren't a philosopher's (pens), but a soldier's (guns), their chants not "cogito ergo sum", but "gott mitt uns". The same chant is now rising from across the Atlantic and it's no less scary in english than in german. So, no, I will not idealise military might.

October 6 2012, 06:34 AM	#102
HopefulRomantic Phloxist Moderator Location: celebrating Tohoshinki's 8th anniversary	Re: officers are called 'sir' Folks, seriously, bluedana has already asked for everyone to stay on topic. Please take your non-Enterprise, non-use of "sir" discussion to an appropriate forum, which is not here. Okay? Thanks. __________________ 2013 Enterprise Calendars! Rainbow Bridge ~ Now I am eleven cats old Strange New Worlds 10: "The Dream"

October 9 2012, 10:01 AM	#103
Bry_Sinclair Commodore Location: Along the border of Talarian space	Re: officers are called 'sir' Off topic post removed, my bad. __________________ Avatar: Captain Hilgrat Ja-Inrosh (deceased), Commanding Officer, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)

October 15 2012, 04:54 AM	#104
Jhubelle Ensign	Re: officers are called 'sir' Female officers in the US military are addressed as ma'am, not sir. I was actually in the military, and I can tell you... calling a female officer "sir" is a bad idea. It gets you in trouble. Starfleet was based on the US Navy, so it is perfectly appropriate for female Starfleet officers to be addressed as ma'am. I won't go into the "but Starfleet isn't military" debate because that's pointless.