7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Admiral2]

intrinsical wrote:

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Funny, and here I was thinking Ten was the whiny, bratty man-child.

"The laws of time are mine. And they will obey me!!!"
"I'm the winner. Timelord Victorious."
"I don't want to die!!!"

Bah. Nine makes them both look stupid.

(Damn Ecclestone and his "I'll only do one season...")

[Professor Zoom]

Admiral2 wrote:

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(Damn Ecclestone and his "I'll only do one season...")

Eccleston. Eccleston. Eccelston.

[Mr. Adventure]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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Eccleston. Eccleston. Eccelston.

"Oy! Who called?"

[Professor Zoom]

Mr. Adventure wrote:

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"Oy! Who called?"

[Admiral2]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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And I stick by what I said, even if I can't spell his name.

[Samurai8472]

Dac wrote:

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And while there were people when Rory was "getting" the coffee, Central Park seemed devoid of live for the most part, especially when we only see the same 3 extras in the background for most of the Doc/Rory/Amy shots. Considering what they got seemed awfully underwhelming to me, I just felt like it may as well have been shot in the UK for presumably less expense.

Crowd control and I guess since they were in NY why not use Central Park













You have no soul if you don't get choked up at this picture.

[RoJoHen]

I think Eleven is more mature than some of us are giving him credit for. However, when it comes to people like River, Rory, and Amy, he doesn't see clearly. This is the first time in a very long time that the Doctor has felt like a part of a family, and he understandably doesn't want that to end.

[Awesome Possum]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I think Eleven is more mature than some of us are giving him credit for. However, when it comes to people like River, Rory, and Amy, he doesn't see clearly. This is the first time in a very long time that the Doctor has felt like a part of a family, and he understandably doesn't want that to end.

He's also seems to have spent more time with River and the Ponds than any other companion that we know for sure about. He mentioned that he was around 1200 in an episode and he was around 907 when he first met Amy. So a quarter of his entire life as been with them. Also it is probably the best relationship anyone ever had with their in-laws.

[Alidar Jarok]

Mr Awe wrote:

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It's just like replacing the Doctor with a lookalike robot. In this case, you're planting a headstone to keep up appearances.

Mr Awe

The Doctor didn't replace himself with a lookalike robot. The Tessalect always was shot, he was just mistaken about it being the Doctor.

It's been shown that the Doctor has some sense of what a fixed point is. He figured out that not dying didn't destroy the timeline there, but he's also figured out that replacing Rory and Amy but leaving a tombstone would alter the timeline.

[Ghost Bones]

Samurai8472 wrote:

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You have no soul if you don't get choked up at this picture.

[doubleohfive]

Samurai8472 wrote:

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You have no soul if you don't get choked up at this picture.

Call me Angelus then.

[Starkers]

doubleohAHHHHHH!!!!! wrote:

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Bullshit.

What happened after each of those instances? Ten realized his mistakes. He paid for it when Brook suicides herself. Ten gives his life so Wilf won't have to, even though Wilf wants to die so Ten won't have to.

You're not wrong that Ten had some of these same issues. The part where you're wrong is that unlike Eleven, Ten actually learns from these missteps.

Did he learn, really? After the who Timelor Victorious moment, he saw the Ood, knew what it meant, so what did he do? He ran, gave himself a little farewell tour, except then, when finally giving in to his destiny and exchanging places with Wilf (and for a moment he actually looked like he wouldn't) what does he proceed to do? Oh yes, he goes on another farewell tour, in fact he holds off his regeneration so long he almost blows the Tardis to pieces. Not to mention popping to visit Rose before she knows who he is, but nah, that'll probably be ok, no paradox there!

not to mention manipulating all of time and space to make Donna rich.

Of course eleven had a bit of a farewell tour as well, the difference is, when the moment came, he went willingly, nobley, and he knew he was going to his actual, final death as far as he knew, whereas Ten was pretty certain he'd regenerate.

I know which one's the better man.

[Trubinator]

Judge Death wrote:

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Did he learn, really? After the who Timelor Victorious moment, he saw the Ood, knew what it meant, so what did he do? He ran, gave himself a little farewell tour, except then, when finally giving in to his destiny and exchanging places with Wilf (and for a moment he actually looked like he wouldn't) what does he proceed to do? Oh yes, he goes on another farewell tour, in fact he holds off his regeneration so long he almost blows the Tardis to pieces. Not to mention popping to visit Rose before she knows who he is, but nah, that'll probably be ok, no paradox there!

not to mention manipulating all of time and space to make Donna rich.

Of course eleven had a bit of a farewell tour as well, the difference is, when the moment came, he went willingly, nobley, and he knew he was going to his actual, final death as far as he knew, whereas Ten was pretty certain he'd regenerate.

I know which one's the better man.

Eleventh doc also seems to be more human than his predecessors in many ways. He lacks the Tennant ego and is very much capable of love and selfless sacrifice. I think some people assume he is immature because he is quite happy and excited a lot of the time, but there's nothing inherently wrong with this. His actions speak volumes.

[Orac Zen]

^ & ^^
Agreed.

To me, Eleven's an actual person. Ten's an egotistical, irritating caricature. But I'm just a viewer; what would I know?

Judge Death wrote:

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Hope you don't mind me highlighting that bit, but truer words were rarely spoken!!

Nah, fine by me (and thanks). Thanks for providing me with a jumping-off point - so to speak.

[Starkers]

Trubinator wrote:

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Eleventh doc also seems to be more human than his predecessors in many ways. He lacks the Tennant ego and is very much capable of love and selfless sacrifice. I think some people assume he is immature because he is quite happy and excited a lot of the time, but there's nothing inherently wrong with this. His actions speak volumes.

Plus being overly excitable and somewhat immature surely come with the territory when it comes to the Doctor. Personally I quite like that Smith is less like a grumpy hyperactive child (like Ten) and more like a grumpy, overactive old man!