7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Sindatur]

Plain Simple wrote:

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That might be enough for Rory's insecureness to flare up again.

Or Amy's

[Saul]

Would have been nice if they could have expanded that end scene. Just have it a little longer, not a repeat of what we saw in the first episode of series 5. Perhaps have the Doctor show up in front of Amy. I thought they might have had the foresight to do a scene like that to save for later...

[marillion]

Sindatur wrote:

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Or Amy's

Zing!! I smell a spin-off!

I don't, however, think they went back that far.. The tombstone was too new-looking, which to me meant that their natural deaths were more recent.

Say Amy and Rory were both 35 (Do we ever know their real ages in the 10 years that transpired in their lives since they met the Doctor? ) If Amy died in 2012, 5 years after Rory, then that would have put them in Manhatten in 1960...

God help Rory, with Amy being let loose in NY of the 60's. LOL!!!

[Admiral2]

Dac wrote:

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I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park? Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

[Sindatur]

Admiral2 wrote:

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Those of us from New York prefer the authenticity, regardless of how much of it could have been faked in the UK. Did you not see the special that came before the show? DW filmed here and the sets got mobbed by american fans. That alone is worth the price of plane tickets and cargo charges, AFAIC.

And I wonder about the earlier statement of what a small audience the American Audience is? Doesn't the UK score about 8Million an episode and BBCA gets about 6Million? That's a pretty significant number compared to the UK number. Now sure, the percentage of available audience is much smaller in the US, considering our population, but, the way the statement was framed, first saying it was small compared to the UK, and then saying it was actually miniscule if you consider the Population difference, seems like you're saying 6Million by itself, is dinky, and even moreso by virtue of population percentage.

Now of course, I realize the show is made for UK License Fee payers, but the Ratings outside of the UK do count for saleability of International airing Rights, and, having so many BBCA Fans of the show, does allow BBCA to pick up some of the Production costs for episodes set in America (Which means they are able to film on location outside of the UK, without it huirting their budget)

[Worf2DS9]

G2309 wrote:

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I wonder if theywill properly kill off a companion again. This episode really made me appreciate Karen Gilian and Arthur Darvill. It certainly beat the departure of Billie Piper.

I actually liked the tragedy & finality of Rose's departure in "Doomsday". The problem was bringing her back when it was supposed to be impossible, then making her happy by giving her a human Doctor to play with.

[Allyn Gibson]

Sindatur wrote:

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And I wonder about the earlier statement of what a small audience the American Audience is? Doesn't the UK score about 8Million an episode and BBCA gets about 6Million?

BBC America gets closer to 1.5 million viewers per episode. "Asylum of the Daleks" had 1.6 million viewers.

[RoJoHen]

I don't have any idea what effect this has on the numbers, but it might also be worth mentioning that not everybody in the US even gets BBC America. My cable provider doesn't carry it, so I've had to resort to other means of watching Doctor Who (the last couple years I waited for it to show up on Netflix; this season I subscribed to the season on iTunes).

[Sindatur]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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BBC America gets closer to 1.5 million viewers per episode. "Asylum of the Daleks" had 1.6 million viewers.

Oh, OK, I thought it was around 6 Million, which I was thinking was actually incredible considering it's on a high tier of service, rather than on Basic Cable.

So, then...Nevermind

[Mr Awe]

Mister Fandango wrote:

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We already know that they're visited at least one more time and more likely two (one for River to tell Amy to write the last page, and one in which to retrieve the book to slip it into the Doctor's coat).

It obviously wasn't a plan, but the situation worked out. And, again, why risk destroying the world just to screw up their happy little lives when they are, you know, happy where they are. Especially since we know they can still be visited from time to time.

I guess it just doesn't seem as dangerous as you state because River can just pop in. Why would it be OK for her but not the Doctor. Doesn't really make sense.

Mr Awe

[Mr Awe]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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They must have been sent to the 1890s.

Rory's part of the tombstone didn't change from the beginning of the episode to the end. Thus, he had always died in 1938 and eliminating the Angel Farm didn't change that. If he was 82 in 1938 and he was in his mid- to late-thirties in present, then working back forty-five years, give or take five on either side, he'd have landed in 1893.

Nah, I'm pretty sure the indication was that they were sent back to the same time, 1938. So, he reached the age of 82 from there. Assuming he was 35ish (not really sure), that's 1938+47= Rory dying in 1985.

Mr Awe

[Kanenas]

StCoop wrote:

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What a pile of shite.

You'd think that just this once Moffat would want to go for substance over style but instead with get his usual pile of crap that makes no sense once you apply two seconds of thought to it.

So you can't go back to New York in 1938? Go to London and send them some plane tickets.

So the Doctor can just dish out regeneration energy to heal people whenever he likes? Aren't there a couple of thousand times in the past fifty years of stories when that might have come in handy?

And I'm not even going to touch the stealth capabilities of the Statue Of Liberty.

Thank you for expressing the frustration for the absurd aversion to happy endings. I would have like for Amy to be repaired by the sisters of mercy hospital and she and rory lived out a GOOD life as Mr. and Mrs. Williams with a bundle of little Williamses. (with that really cool red jag)

Instead it is just another ...what you said.

[doubleohfive]

I don't know if this is legit. It reads oddly as if it's fan-made with all the continuity porn included. Still, it's nicely done:

[Starkers]

Having watched it again, can I point out that the "Can't go to New York again it'll blow up" issue is not referenced as a reason for not seeing Rory and Amy, he just says he can't go to NY in 1938 again that's all. His reasoning for not seeing Rory and Amy is different (it may or may not make sense, but it is different, at least as far as I can see.)

Oh yeah, and second time around I still loved it.

[davejames]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Yeah, it'd be one thing if they were full of crazy Angel temporal energy that prevented them from time-traveling ever again, therefore getting stuck in the past for the rest of their lives. But the idea that the Doctor can't ever SEE them again just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's possible that the Doctor feels that if he DOES see them again, the temptation would be too great to try to rescue them. Which is why he doesn't want to take the chance.