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Old September 30 2012, 12:44 AM   #31
Set Harth
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

That's not the message Obi-Wan is going to take away from that conversation. This is not the point in the timeline where Palpatine is ready to reveal himself.

Nightowl1701 wrote:
As Mace put it in the ROTS novelization, "The only reason Palpatine himself isn't a suspect is because he already rules the galaxy." And he had been for over a dozen years at that point. Given the history of previous Sith Lords (Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Lord Kaan), they figured if Palpatine was a Sith, he would have lost patience/subtlety and tried to make a move to seize total control years ago. He was essentially FDR circa 1945 (minus the annoying cerebral hemorrage) at this point as far as the galaxy was concerned. What they were suspecting by the early part of ROTS was that Palpatine had been in office too long, gotten too used to the trappings of power, and was starting to look at ways to stay in power permanently while keeping the Jedi and Senate in check. IF there was a Darth Sidious around, he could be acting as Palpatine's Karl Rove/Valerie Jarrett.

They didn't WANT to believe that a Sith Lord could have been running the Republic for years right under their noses. It was simply unthinkable.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:11 AM   #32
C.E. Evans
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
C. E. Evans wrote:



We've all been there, haven't we?
Only when I open my eyes.
That's not me you're quoting, but Set Harth.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:13 AM   #33
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Winston Churchill admits that Hitler is working for him and he is the secret leader of the Third Reich.

George Bush Snr admits that he has an intimate relationship with Saddam Hussein who had been operating under his direct order for the 15 years leading up to his death.

People who hated Palatine knew this, and he stayed in power, unless Yoda and Obi-Wan crawled into a bottle or started sucking on te spacehash pipe, got to busy to start up an imperial Wiki-leaks.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:17 AM   #34
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Only when I open my eyes.
That's not me you're quoting, but Set Harth.
My eyes were shut.

You were warned.

(Fixed.)
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Old September 30 2012, 08:11 PM   #35
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Winston Churchill admits that Hitler is working for him and he is the secret leader of the Third Reich.

George Bush Snr admits that he has an intimate relationship with Saddam Hussein who had been operating under his direct order for the 15 years leading up to his death.

People who hated Palatine knew this, and he stayed in power, unless Yoda and Obi-Wan crawled into a bottle or started sucking on te spacehash pipe, got to busy to start up an imperial Wiki-leaks.
Or they get dismissed as the equivalent of people saying that George Bush planned 9/11. Also, I'm not sure there's a Galactic version of the internet in this universe where information can travel that freely and anonymously.
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Old September 30 2012, 09:12 PM   #36
Guy Gardener
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Well the Emperor was able to send communications to Vader from half a galaxy away in Empire.

of course Military communications man be a snuff above commercial communications.

Imperial Mail?

In one of the "what if' mirror universe Star Wars comics that came early this century, where just changed something slight to make the movies really incredibly different... I think in one Luke died on the assault against the first Deathstar and Leia became Vader's Apprentice but the death star survived... And an Imperial news report was now calling it "The Justice Star".

They must have a wealth media of media and news, whether it is true or fabricated to uplift the sentient condition.

Was podracing really just George thinking that he could exploit NASCAR's unexplainable popularity?
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Old September 30 2012, 09:13 PM   #37
Mister Fandango
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
There's also the remote location of Tatooine to take into consideration. Most inhabitants of the planet probably didn't receive galactic news quickly, and many of them may not have been all that knowledgeable about recent galactic history.
So why didn't Han believe in them? Especially with Chewy at his side?
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Old September 30 2012, 09:41 PM   #38
Guy Gardener
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Imagine if Chewey and Yoda had met in Empire?

"DUUUDE!"

"DUUUDE!"

And then they high five.

(Yoda might have to jump.)
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Old September 30 2012, 09:55 PM   #39
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Well, Han probably believes that the Jedi existed and were really good at using lightsabers, but he had no reason to believe they had special powers. I don't think Chewie saw Yoda do necessarily changed that.really good, but didn't know they had
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Old September 30 2012, 11:17 PM   #40
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Also, I'm not sure there's a Galactic version of the internet in this universe where information can travel that freely and anonymously.
The HoloNet was pretty open under the Old Republic (and later would be again under the New Republic / Galactic Alliance), but large portions of it were taken offline after Palpatine took power as Emperor and what remained after that was strictly controlled.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, Han probably believes that the Jedi existed and were really good at using lightsabers, but he had no reason to believe they had special powers. I don't think Chewie saw Yoda do necessarily changed that.really good, but didn't know they had
Also, perhaps Chewie never talked to Han about his experience in the Clone Wars. Chewie was already 200 years old by the time of Yavin, so that's a pretty lengthy lifespan of numerous possible stories.
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Old October 1 2012, 08:05 PM   #41
hyzmarca
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
So Joe Sixpack is fine with a Sith running the show after 10,000 years of Jedi propaganda?
The Jedi are a few hundred guys, tops. There are trillions of people on Coruscant alone. The scale of the galaxy means that the vast majority of people only know about the Jedi via crazy inflated rumors and the likelihood of actually meeting someone with Force Powers is so small that you're better off spending your entire life savings on lottery tickets.

And really, anything that a Force User can do can easily be replicated by technology and slight-of-hand, so tales of Jedi magic are just as easily chocked up to con artists bilking the rubes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
they were the generals of the clone wars that ripped up every planet in the galaxy after they kept the peace for 10,000 years...

Clones vs Droids.

Like "real" people gave a shit.
The battles in the Clone Wars were tiny. Seriously. They did not rip up entire planets. The major battles of the Clone Wars were equivalent to small skirmishes from a modern perspective. Battles consisted of a few hundred guys with minimal combined arms support using Napoleonic tactics fighting over a few square kilometers of land at best.

Every Clone trooper and Battle Droid in the entire SW Galaxy could be dropped in Kansas tomorrow and fight a war and we'd barely notice.

Last edited by hyzmarca; October 1 2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old October 1 2012, 11:27 PM   #42
Set Harth
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

hyzmarca wrote:
The Jedi are a few hundred guys, tops.
More like a hundred hundred.
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Old October 2 2012, 02:47 AM   #43
PsychoPere
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Every Clone trooper and Battle Droid in the entire SW Galaxy could be dropped in Kansas tomorrow and fight a war and we'd barely notice.
We wouldn't notice a minimum of three million clonetroopers and a droid army of at least three hundred million?

As for this assertion that battles in the Clone Wars did not "rip up entire planets" and that battles were "equivalent to small skirmishes from a modern perspective," I suggest perusing the Clone Wars entry at Wookiepedia, because you definitely are not describing an accurate scope of the conflict.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote:
The Jedi are a few hundred guys, tops.
More like a hundred hundred.
I've been doing some searching, and the most common number I can find is 10,000 Jedi at the time of TPM. This number is contradicted on whether that was the entirety of the Order, or merely the number of Jedi on Coruscant at that time. Some citations seem to come from the novelization for TPM, and others are citing Episode I: The Visual Dictionary. Do you recall where you got the hundred thousand number from?
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Old October 2 2012, 05:52 AM   #44
Set Harth
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

I didn't say a hundred thousand. I said a hundred hundred.

PsychoPere wrote:
This number is contradicted on whether that was the entirety of the Order, or merely the number of Jedi on Coruscant at that time.
The TPM novel reference says "spread across a galaxy", so it's not just the ones on Coruscant.
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Old October 2 2012, 02:03 PM   #45
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Oops, yeah, misread that. Sorry!

As for the TPM novel: I know that it said 10,000 in the galaxy, but other people trying to find an answer to the question of how many Jedi were in the galaxy at the time of the Clone Wars also cited Episode I: The Visual Dictionary as saying 10,000 Jedi total. That's where my confusion comes in. I suppose the discrepancy is probably as simple as miscommunication between authors and editors.
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