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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old October 1 2012, 05:54 PM   #61
Hartzilla2007
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Re: The Genesis planet...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.
No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.
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Old October 1 2012, 06:03 PM   #62
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.
No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.
The damaged Enterprise reaches the Nebula pretty fast. It's not that far away.

Besides, remember the shockwave in TUC?
Same author, same director.
That shockwave travels a far greater distance in a pretty short time.
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Old October 1 2012, 06:13 PM   #63
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Re: The Genesis planet...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Considering how fast Genesis forms, it is a far more logical and easier explanation that the Genesis-wave re-formed Regula.
No, it is not easier and more logical at all you are saying that the wave magically traveled to a planet that was pretty far from the detonation point and at what seemed to be light speed for some unexplained reason and still had the energy to completely reform it into a planet capable of supporting life.
The damaged Enterprise reaches the Nebula pretty fast. It's not that far away.
but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.

Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.

Besides, remember the shockwave in TUC?
Same author, same director.
That shockwave travels a far greater distance in a pretty short time.
It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges
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Old October 1 2012, 06:26 PM   #64
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.
Yet time enough for a completely new planet to form?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.
Who said anything about "zeroing in"? Explosions expand in all directions in a vacuum.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges
Yeah, but the exploding warp-core and all that anti-matter in the Reliant aren't a factor?
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Old October 1 2012, 06:35 PM   #65
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Timo wrote: View Post
Why should this be a problem? We never get any indication that the nebula would for be a barrier for the Genesis wave in any manner. Obviously, it is going to reach Kirk's starship unless Kirk goes to warp - so just as obviously, it's going to reach a planetoid that Kirk only very recently departed at damaged impulse.
Perhaps it wasn't the Genesis Wave that was the threat Kirk was trying so desperately to warp away from. Perhaps it was just that at the painfully slow speed at which they were lumbering away from the Reliant and with shields non-functional, that the detonation of the ship's matter/antimatter reactors, whether by Genesis or otherwise, would destroy Kirk's ship.
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Old October 2 2012, 01:29 AM   #66
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Re: The Genesis planet...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Ti-BOO!-rius wrote: View Post
The Mutara Nebula was far enough away from Regula that we never saw it when the Enterprise was at the planetoid.
Honestly.



Did you watch that movie with your eyes closed?
Oops. My bad.

Still, that shows that the nebula is some distance from the planetoid.
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Old October 2 2012, 01:48 AM   #67
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Re: The Genesis planet...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
but far away enough at the speed the wave would likely be traveling that it couldn't have reached and reformed the planet as fast as it did in the film.
Yet time enough for a completely new planet to form?
well seeing as genesis tends to do the planet forming thing quickly thats likely not as mush of an issue as traveling a considerable distance and not only still having the energy to reform Regula but to do so before Spock dies from radiation poisoning.

Besides the view of the Genesis planet makes it look like the planet is just forming since it looks like magma is floating around it.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Plus you have yet to explain just why the genesis wave would zero in on that particular planet.
Who said anything about "zeroing in"? Explosions expand in all directions in a vacuum.
And yet by doing so the Enterprise would have to travel pretty far away from the area to not have everyone killed by genesis if this was the case, and they didn't seem to go far time wise.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges
Yeah, but the exploding warp-core and all that anti-matter in the Reliant aren't a factor?
Well seeing as warp core breaches don't work the way they would have to your scenario work.

No, they aren't a factor.

CoveZombie wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Why should this be a problem? We never get any indication that the nebula would for be a barrier for the Genesis wave in any manner. Obviously, it is going to reach Kirk's starship unless Kirk goes to warp - so just as obviously, it's going to reach a planetoid that Kirk only very recently departed at damaged impulse.
Perhaps it wasn't the Genesis Wave that was the threat Kirk was trying so desperately to warp away from. Perhaps it was just that at the painfully slow speed at which they were lumbering away from the Reliant and with shields non-functional, that the detonation of the ship's matter/antimatter reactors, whether by Genesis or otherwise, would destroy Kirk's ship.
No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.
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Old October 2 2012, 02:45 AM   #68
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.
"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.
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Old October 2 2012, 04:26 AM   #69
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Re: The Genesis planet...

CoveZombie wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.
"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.
When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.
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Old October 2 2012, 05:13 AM   #70
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Re: The Genesis planet...

RyanKCR wrote: View Post
CoveZombie wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
No, they specifically were running from the Genesis detonation.
"Specifically?" Based on what? From what I recall of the dialogue, there is nothing that specifically says it is the Genesis wave that will destroy the Enterprise. Yes, they're monitoring the countdown to its detonation, but that could simply be because they know it's detonation will also simultaneously detonate the Reliant's warp core, which might be the real threat to the Enterprise's safety.
When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.
Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.
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Old October 2 2012, 11:45 AM   #71
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Re: The Genesis planet...

It was a shockwave from an exploding moon that may or may not have been subspace based not an energy wave that reforms a planet, it's apples and oranges
There was also the remark about "overmining" the moon implying the Klingons were mining for something important like Dilithium.

Or the implication that the mining operation was a cover for heavy weapons development deep inside the moon, including subspace weapons, which we know were shortly after banned by the very Khitomer Accords seen at the end of the film, can't be a coincidence.
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Old October 2 2012, 04:41 PM   #72
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
well seeing as genesis tends to do the planet forming thing quickly thats likely not as mush of an issue as traveling a considerable distance and not only still having the energy to reform Regula but to do so before Spock dies from radiation poisoning.

Besides the view of the Genesis planet makes it look like the planet is just forming since it looks like magma is floating around it.
You know, I can accept that the Genesis Effect can cause (plant)-life to spring up pretty fast, or the release of gases that form an atmosphere which in turn, over time, will change the planet's surface.
But I can't accept that this thing can scatter a nebula then pull it together so fast, so violently that it forms a planet which then cools down within minutes.

Genesis as a central plot-element, and as it was presented in the video is far fetched enough with its ability to create life. The idea that it can speed up the processes that create planets (accumulation of mass, pressure, heat, cooling down) is too far out there for me - yes, even with Trek's matter-transporters, warp-drives...
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Old October 2 2012, 05:52 PM   #73
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Besides just all the time travel episodes, we've seen episodes when time has fractured, like TNG's Timescape. Given that the Genesis Planet evolved and blew up at an accelerated rate, it would really be surprising if its formation weren't accelerated, too (as I already pointed out upthread). There's nothing more implausible about the Genesis Planet than there is in episodes like Timescape. That protomatter sure must be powerful shit, though.
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Old October 2 2012, 06:35 PM   #74
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Re: The Genesis planet...

RyanKCR wrote: View Post
When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.
Okay, so what you're saying is that there wasn't a "specifically" then. You're basing it on a shared look between Kirk and David, and the fact that they did not specifically mention a warp core breach. So there is no "specifically."
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Old October 2 2012, 06:41 PM   #75
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Re: The Genesis planet...

CoveZombie wrote: View Post
RyanKCR wrote: View Post
When Kirk looks to David after getting the time and distance report, David shakes his head. They were running from Genesis.
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Plus if they were running from the warp core breach it would have been mentioned.
Okay, so what you're saying is that there wasn't a "specifically" then. You're basing it on a shared look between Kirk and David, and the fact that they did not specifically mention a warp core breach. So there is no "specifically."
Well, they were running from the explosion of the Omega 13... I mean Genesis.
But since the Genesis device wasn't the only thing that could explode on the Reliant, they were also running from everything else that would be ignited - mainly her anti-matter tanks.
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