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Old October 1 2012, 04:00 AM   #31
Dukhat
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Gotcha
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Old October 1 2012, 04:37 AM   #32
Therin of Andor
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
However, I don't think that at the time, the Excelsior mentioned in that scene was supposed to be the "great experiment," but rather just a generic ship, correct?
Correct, it was a throwaway line, which would have become even more important in the next film if the ST II scene had been left in.
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Old October 1 2012, 04:39 AM   #33
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

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Dream wrote: View Post
Sulu pretty much asked to be made Captain, even if it meant less screen time for him in TUC.
He didn't request to be a captain in ST VI, but was pleasantly surprised when he read the script, and that the "Hikaru" first name (from "The Entropy Effect" novel that first highlighted Sulu's loftier career aspirations). The writers knew that the promotion would appeal to the actor as something more interesting to do than piloting the ship.
This doesn't sound like a man that had no interest in being a Captain.

How did it feel to become Captain Sulu in "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country"?

"Glorious! I worked hard on that one. I lobbied and lobbied and lobbied. Finally it happened"
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-tr...171800213.html

Also yes, he DID end up with less screentime since he wasn't with the main cast but on his own ship.
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Old October 1 2012, 04:40 AM   #34
Therin of Andor
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Dream wrote: View Post
This doesn't sound like a man that had no interest in being a Captain.
Takei wanted to play interesting and challenging scenes, not necessarily that his character got promotions. After all, Sulu was promoted for TMP and ST II, and his lines stayed the same.

"Glorious! I worked hard on that one. I lobbied and lobbied and lobbied. Finally it happened"
He lobbied at conventions for a TV series spin-off called "Captain Sulu", he wasn't demanding it of the studio for ST VI.
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Old October 1 2012, 05:06 AM   #35
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Kim's the only person in Trek to get an alien STD. That has to count for something.
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Old October 1 2012, 05:17 AM   #36
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

It happened to Trip too.

But ya know Janeway should have given him some credit for this. Sure she couldn't promote everyone but a way around this would have been to make up special team leader titles for the left behind, to keep them feeling promoted.

"Mr. Kim. I want you to be our Sexual Health Team Leader. I know your wealth of experience will be invaluable to the crew."

And then she could have given him a little badge with Harry Kim, Sexual Health Team Leader on it.
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Old October 1 2012, 05:35 AM   #37
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Are you talking about him getting raped then impregnated without his knowledge? I actually felt bad for him in that one.. what jerks the rest of his crew were.

And Harry Kim is like the Anti Christ of all things sexual.. not only does he screw up(and no pun intended there) his own chances, but his mere presence destroys all sexual energy in the room. Like Janeway's almost kiss with that French alien previously mentioned. Just call him Ensign Cockblock.
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Old October 1 2012, 05:38 AM   #38
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

R. Star wrote: View Post
And Harry Kim is like the Anti Christ of all things sexual.. not only does he screw up(and no pun intended there) his own chances, but his mere presence destroys all sexual energy in the room. Like Janeway's almost kiss with that French alien previously mentioned. Just call him Ensign Cockblock.
When Seven offered to have sex with him, he starting freaking out and getting embrassed. What a loser!
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Old October 1 2012, 05:46 AM   #39
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Probably because the writers and producers didn't give a crap about his character. Hell, they wanted to fire Wang halfway through the series, but that stupid People Magazine came out with their stupid "sexiest people" issue, and they fired Jennifer Lien instead.
REALLY? When did that happen?
This has been pretty well documented before. In a nutshell, Wang was showing up for work late, having a lousy attitude, etc. The producers wanted to trim the cast anyway, so they were going to fire him and kill Harry Kim off, but then People Magazine came out with their "50 most sexiest people" issue, and Wang was in it. Fearing they'd have egg on their face if they fired Wang now, they fired Lein instead.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
...so Harve Bennett promised to add a scene where Kirk tells Sulu about his promotion, to captain of USS Excelsior (long before anyone knew the ship would featured in the next film)
However, I don't think that at the time, the Excelsior mentioned in that scene was supposed to be the "great experiment," but rather just a generic ship, correct?
WWhile it wouldn't surprise me that PR might have helped Wang keep his job, I have a hard time believing that it was the one thing that pushed the scales in his favor. Make no mistake the writers had long struggled with Jennifer's character, and she was the one character that wasn't really vital to the show.

Harry might have been a cypher, but his character's position is a lot more vital. And I would think that after the mess of TNG's first season (of which Berman was very much aware) not having certain characters was a significant hardship.

In fact I think if Wes would have left the ship early (say season two) I think the show (which wasn't the huge hit that it became by season 4 and five) would have pushed harder for a full time replacement of that position. I mean they did try bas Ro was conceived to fill that position, but as DS9 became a sure thing her character was meant to go there, of course the actress wanted nothing of it, so it became a moot point.
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Old October 1 2012, 06:08 AM   #40
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Dream wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
And Harry Kim is like the Anti Christ of all things sexual.. not only does he screw up(and no pun intended there) his own chances, but his mere presence destroys all sexual energy in the room. Like Janeway's almost kiss with that French alien previously mentioned. Just call him Ensign Cockblock.
When Seven offered to have sex with him, he starting freaking out and getting embrassed. What a loser!
Offered? I think you mean demanded.
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Old October 1 2012, 06:15 AM   #41
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

R. Star wrote: View Post
And Harry Kim is like the Anti Christ of all things sexual.. not only does he screw up(and no pun intended there) his own chances, but his mere presence destroys all sexual energy in the room. Like Janeway's almost kiss with that French alien previously mentioned. Just call him Ensign Cockblock.
See I think Kes drains all the sexual energy from the room with her scary borderline child vibe and her is she or isn't she Neelix questions. You wouldn't even know if it was appropriate to make the mildest of lewd jests around her.
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Old October 1 2012, 06:36 AM   #42
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Because not everyone can be promoted on Voyager.
...Or because no one can?

It's not as if we ever really saw a promotion in that series, after all. Tom Paris got his Lieutenant pips apparently as part of the deal made with Starfleet back on Earth; he then got half a pip taken away for some reason, and then again half a pip taken away. And then he got half a pip back, which wasn't really promotion but reversal of punishment. Tuvok got half a pip taken off his collar for some reason, and then very publicly was given it back.

Perhaps Janeway simply felt that she did not have the right to give any field promotions to anybody? At least not regular Starfleeters, that is - but even the Maquis only ever got demotions after they had received their initial rank bars.

Out-universe, I doubt rank of a character was ever an issue a writer, a producer or even an actor would feel the need to think about. Except of course when the plot involved the rank changing. But demotion would have been as good publicity for all the parties involved as promotion, surely.

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Old October 1 2012, 07:23 AM   #43
teacake
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Timo wrote: View Post
Because not everyone can be promoted on Voyager.
...Or because no one can?
I bet it's some nebula's fault.

Out-universe, I doubt rank of a character was ever an issue a writer, a producer or even an actor would feel the need to think about. Except of course when the plot involved the rank changing. But demotion would have been as good publicity for all the parties involved as promotion, surely.
Now that's interesting. Would the actors be just as happy about a big fat demotion if it gave them a big fat storyline?
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Old October 1 2012, 08:57 AM   #44
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Harry Kim never got a promotion for the same reason no one else did.

After the Maquis crew were assigned by the second episode (which ever episode Torres was made chief engineer), they stayed that rank forever.

Tom got promoted, only after he got demoted, so he finished with the same rank he started.
Of course another poster already mentioned this.

I think it is foolish for an actor to want to up their character's rank considering rank had nothing to do with either pay check or the amount of dialogue you got.
Chakotay was the second highest rank, and I think he got as much dialogue as Kim.
Seven Of Nine didn't even have a rank, and she often had the second highest amount of dialogue in that show.
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Old October 1 2012, 09:14 AM   #45
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Re: why was ensign kim not promoted at all in 7 years?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Probably because the writers and producers didn't give a crap about his character. Hell, they wanted to fire Wang halfway through the series, but that stupid People Magazine came out with their stupid "sexiest people" issue, and they fired Jennifer Lien instead.
Regardless of the reason, I was glad when Kes' character was written out. I never liked her.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
"Glorious! I worked hard on that one. I lobbied and lobbied and lobbied. Finally it happened"
He lobbied at conventions for a TV series spin-off called "Captain Sulu", he wasn't demanding it of the studio for ST VI.
I wish there had been a "Captain Sulu" TV series.
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