7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Alidar Jarok]

I'd also point out it's valid to compare to previous people if the argument is just that this is what Doctor Who "does."

[Professor Zoom]

I don't have a problem with the Cyberking wandering around... it wasn't bound by the rule when someone was LOOKING at it, it couldn't move. Like the Angels are. If there are going to be rules, self imposed rules, one should play by them.

[Mr. Adventure]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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The show is about their travels, not their family. I thought having Rose's family was a nice change of pace and I liked Donna's family so it was worthwhile (Martha's family were relatively pointless), but it isn't necessary each time.

We did see Amy's family, the others just had the decency not to travel with them.

[VDCNI]

Mister Fandango wrote:

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When the argument is that it only crops up during Moffatt's tenure and that RTD was some kind of angelic saint who never included stupid crap in his shows, yes, it very much does. Do try to keep up with the conversation.

Except the person you were responding to hadn't mentioned RTD, I think you might need to keep up.

But then in your world all us Brits are hate filled racists aren't we?

[Dac]

Samurai8472 wrote:

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Clearly not









Since when did people start getting possessive of "Doctor Who" being only for the British?

Are you saying expansion of the show's audience to an emerging market is bad?

I just met about 7 or 8 Doctor Who fans at my local community college here in Iowa. When we have free time we watch the latest episodes.

A "Doctor Who" club was just approved by some students.

I'm sorry. I am not a New Yorker, and even though I was aware it was Central Park, I just got that from "New York" and "Park". The shot where they are sitting on a rock? Thats the easiest composite ever. The shot where the Doctor sits down? I don't remember seeing that in the episode, although I guess it takes place after Rory is first taken? It certainly never happened at the end.

Doctor Who has done this before though - why the fuck did they send an entire London bus to Dubai when every single shot of it was simply on a nondescript sand dune with a CG backdrop ANYWAY. The only times filming abroad seemed valid was last year in Utah and the Western Episode this year. At least in those locations the production value appeared on screen and was believable.

[Mr Light]

Good ending, but I felt it was missing a scene of them being old together...

[Professor Zoom]

Dac wrote:

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I'm sorry. I am not a New Yorker, and even though I was aware it was Central Park, I just got that from "New York" and "Park". The shot where they are sitting on a rock? Thats the easiest composite ever. The shot where the Doctor sits down? I don't remember seeing that in the episode, although I guess it takes place after Rory is first taken? It certainly never happened at the end.

You should visit Central Park, in the fall, beautiful. And you can go to the fountain, the tunnel where Rory is taken--it's right next to the fountain, the bridge, even that rock they sat on. I've sat on it. It's lovely. And then, of course, see the rest of the city.

For me, it's really great they shot in New York. SO MANY shows made in America that are set in New York are shot here in LA. Castle being one. And it's VERY clear it's not New York. Their "Central Park" is ... meh.

Sometimes it's better to shoot in the actual location. It's visceral, it's... well, REAL. It adds something to a show. Law and Order wouldn't quite be the same if they shot it in Toronto.

[Dac]

I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park? Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

[Allyn Gibson]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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For me, it's really great they shot in New York.

If Matt Smith had his way, they'd shoot every episode of Doctor Who in New York. He's not shy about saying so, either.

And no, I have no idea how filming Doctor Who in New York permanently would work.

[Timelord_Victorious]

Why does everyone think that the TARDIS can never land in New York again?

I took it with "there" teh Doctor meant that specific point in space time when/where the paradox happened and MAYBE anything that is causally connected to that.

[Dac]

If that was the case, why didn't they time travel to 1930's New Jersey at the end and just walk on over to Manhattan and get Rory? The reason they didn't is because the Doctor AND River said it would create a paradox which would "destroy New York".

[teacake]

I don't understand how when you have a show about a Tardis that can go anywhere at all people think it should stay in the UK.

[P0sitr0nic]

Dac wrote:

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If that was the case, why didn't they time travel to 1930's New Jersey at the end and just walk on over to Manhattan and get Rory? The reason they didn't is because the Doctor AND River said it would create a paradox which would "destroy New York".

Because he is already dead of old age in that timeline. They cant change that now. The Gravestone places him dead THERE at 86 years of age. The Doctor cant alter it, it would create another paradox. How would they know to go get him without the gravestone, but there would be no grave if they went and got him.

On top of the paradox already in play with them jumping, the new one would blow a hole in space time. Maybe the size of Belgium.

[Professor Zoom]

Dac wrote:

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I would love to visit New York, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't see enough of it on screen to warrant filming there. And the shots of Central Park did look devoid of life.

Watching the opening again, I'd say theres at most 5 shots which NEEDED to be filmed in New York, and any of the rest could easily have been faked in post, and to be honest probably were.

There were also shots in Times Square, of the Brooklyn Bridge. Sure, coulda been done in post... but what's the problem, I guess.... So they shot in New York versus trying to find things that sorta might be able to pass for New York in a bland way.

Doctor Who isn't set in New York every week though, and won't be again thanks to that little line of dialogue about if he went back in the Tardis it'll be blown up. Soo...what was the point? 5 shots of Rory holding coffee walking through a park?

And Times Square, the Hudson, the Brooklyn Bridge. The point is to make it look real. But, what's the PROBLEM with that?

Theres a few in London that could easily have doubled for those. I just don't see the money on screen like I'd expect an episode filmed in New York would look like.

I guess you're right, they could've used a generic park some where and not shown anything specific from Central Park... but then... what's the point in that? At least you shoot in New York, you get the press, you get the attention... which for your show, isn't that what you want? to be talked about?

[Lonemagpie]

P0sitr0nic wrote:

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Because he is already dead of old age in that timeline. They cant change that now. The Gravestone places him dead THERE at 86 years of age. The Doctor cant alter it, it would create another paradox. How would they know to go get him without the gravestone, but there would be no grave if they went and got him.

Except that all they and we know is there's a stone with their names on it. There's zero proof that they're under it. And even if there was, that just means they'd need to hold the funeral there.

It's no more a definite finality than the Doctor's gravestone in Revelation Of The Daleks was.