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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Spock/Uhura pairing?
I LOVE them together! 29 46.77%
I generally think theyíre okay together. 12 19.35%
Not my preference, but I donít mind them together. 13 20.97%
I HATE them together. 8 12.90%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 30 2012, 12:48 AM   #181
R. Star
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Has it ever occurred to anyone the Spock will outlive Uhura...Spock can live up to 200 years...Uhura would be lucky to get to a 100.

so it is not really happily ever after....sigh
He'll follow his father's example and get a younger woman by then.
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Old September 30 2012, 12:57 AM   #182
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
The practicalities:
Star Trek is a reboot yes but its also a prequel.a 2009 movie set in the 1950's on a TOS timescale.
When I first saw Spock and Uhura ,"gettin it on", my only thought was wth .
1.It was good movie watching taken on its own , but Ive seen all the original episodes a number of times and however you look at it there was never a strong connection between the two.
Even if Uhura did enjoy him pulling on his lyre in the rec room.
The pre part to that she describes him as having "satan's eyes,and the devil's ears", not exactly a rememberance of "young love"
Most of the time she found spock's vulcanism as amusing as anyone else.
Other terms of endearment
Spock:"I can think of no one else more competent to handle it Miss Uhura"

The situation you will have to look up for yourself but you would need a very active imagination to ascribe anything remotely near a previous love interest between Spock and Uhura from watching TOS .
Her love interest aside from the unshown in southern states "kirk kiss" did extend openly to hunky black males who appeared in episodes (which was probaly all that was allowed).

2.The movie she has the "hots" for him and its reciprocated and its the only "love story" in the film.
It may not have been a huge plot element, but its now "out there"and will have to be resolved..not happily.
Everything else,mostly, aside from some time paradoxes can be explained away/"suspension of belief" will work.

3. I dont mention the original ST I-VI movies because they are sequels to TOS and nothing in them adds anything to a young Spock/ Uhura relationship.Except possibly the "Genesis effect",(see below)

3.In the ST franchise , there havent been many/any long term/intense (boy/girl)relationships between regular cast members .
ST TNG had one.

4. The actor who plays the young Spock came out as "fully gay" in 2011. So what?..perhaps,Sulu/George Takei "married some guy in the 2000's", but for an audience paying/watching something and hoping to be entertained,all the close up shots of young spock n young uhura rotated to look more horizontal mambo are kinda wasted .

5.The way its played up to now,and the "cant be dismissed" affection between Spock and Uhura in the first reboot movie,I cant see soln's aside from

a.Another Genesis effect type Spock or Uhura rebirth..mind blank.
b."Lets do the time warp again",some time paradox that will erase/remove the memories of both of the "love thang".
c.The "pong far " and blood boiling may be introduced as a love wiping device?
d."I have been and allways shall nr..perhaps some platonic undertones introduced .. groan

Either way I cant see how the Spock/Uhura relationship can be continued.
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic



Zach had some of the sexiest scenes on heroes and yes... they were with woman




Zoe and the rest of the cast already knew Zach was gay b4 he came out and Zach is a good actor who can play gay and straight roles equally well. I guess people like you are the type of people that Zack was scared off. As you seem to judge him only on his sexuality






However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasnít gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I donít encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.

I still eternally love Mr Quinto and I think him and Zoe are perfect together on screen.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:01 AM   #183
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Has it ever occurred to anyone the Spock will outlive Uhura...Spock can live up to 200 years...Uhura would be lucky to get to a 100.

so it is not really happily ever after....sigh
That didn't seem to bother Sarek and Amanda . . . .
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Old September 30 2012, 01:10 AM   #184
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

^ I agree. It's happily for as long as they have each other, and even after she dies, like his father, he'll still love her.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:52 AM   #185
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
The practicalities:
Star Trek is a reboot yes but its also a prequel.a 2009 movie set in the 1950's on a TOS timescale.
Oh, it's probably worth remembering that the movie isn't literally a prequel to the three seasons of TOS. As Spock states explicitly, whatever their futures used to be is no longer set in stone. We're looking at a brand-new timeline--and a brand-new version of the famous five-year-mission, which is bound to play out very differently than the version weve been watching for the last forty years.

For example: the fact that Vulcan is space-dust and Amanda is dead means that "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel" can no longer fit into any future timeline. And you can forget about Amanda's cameo in "The Voyage Home," too.

The new future is a blank slate at this point. What happened last time around is irrelevant.
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Old September 30 2012, 01:57 AM   #186
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasnít gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I donít encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.
So's sepsis but damn I wash out my wounds.
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Old September 30 2012, 02:03 AM   #187
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

teacake wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasn’t gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I don’t encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.
So's sepsis but damn I wash out my wounds.
Don't be silly. Next you're going to be saying that warp drives and transporter beams don't occur in nature . . . .

And nature clearly designed us to communicate by transmitting electrons across vast distances and posting on computer message boards!
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Old September 30 2012, 02:05 AM   #188
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

I am trying to stop myself from posting a youtube of Closer.
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Old September 30 2012, 10:23 AM   #189
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

My points are
1.Take the movie in isolation, and the relationship works and provides interest.
2.The movie is a reboot and prequel, same characters "starting off". The reasons include .Catching in fans of TOS,reintroducing fans of TNG to the original cast ,Getting the next generation who might not have even seen the next genera...wait Im getting into a paradox here
3.
Most of what is in the movie is ..yes Im gonna say it "logical" in the sense that TOS could have progressed from this movie stXI or however you wish to describe it.
The Spock/Uhura relationship in its present form couldnt have.
If TOS had come first in the fictional timeline np.
4.
Pull away the dodgy sets the shakin camers and the crew throwing themselves around to simulate attacks n so on and TOS and XI come down to the "ongoing mission" of the interplay between the main characters.
You dont really see that much of/care about the other 300 crew members aka "ensign fodders".
STXI does a fair "how it it started job on all the main chars.Scott.. meh but wth.The Uhura/Spock thing isticks out as an anomaly imho.

Whatever way you dress it up the Spock/Uhura relationship is different to TOS.
Face it there is no romantic relationship between the 2 in TOS that could have continued on from the point they reached in stXI.

Whats gonna happen now..?
Progression.. and a "Vulcan mindblank" at some future date ?
"Lets keep our love secret" cos were at work and the odd" stop the elevator for a quickie" .. erm maybe.
I mean in the sense of STII. "whose been holding up the godamn elevator" and a scene likethe pair emerge with "secret smiles" and uniform adjustments.

A further oncreen elevation would jar badly with me.. a "paying audience " type cos of the history/lack of, and other reasons mentioned previously.
nb I didnt vote on the poll cos the options dont cover it.
I mean for example ,I didnt hate them together and if I had never seen stI-VI or TOS I might have voted, Loved them together, after first viewing STXI.
Will Spock boldly go where no Vulcan/half Vulcan has gone before? I hope not at least not on screen anyway

Last edited by Soldier; September 30 2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old September 30 2012, 10:25 AM   #190
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic
It's called acting. Separate the actor from the character, because they're not the same. Hence the title of Leonard Nimoy's book, I Am Not Spock.
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Old September 30 2012, 11:03 AM   #191
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
The practicalities:
Star Trek is a reboot yes but its also a prequel.a 2009 movie set in the 1950's on a TOS timescale.
it's alternative reality. The only thing that can be considered "prequel" here is the fact that you see the characters when they were young (something you didn't see in TOS) but for all that matter it's a prequel of this alternative reality not TOS one.


Even if Uhura did enjoy him pulling on his lyre in the rec room.
The pre part to that she describes him as having "satan's eyes,and the devil's ears", not exactly a rememberance of "young love"
They didn't have a relationship in TOS and I think that no one is saying the contrary.
This is another mistake I often read people making about this movie, the assumption that just because Nu!Spock and Uhura do have a relationship it automatically means that Tos Spock and Uhura had one too. As far as canon is concerned (if we go by suppositions and subtext one could believe they were a couple stretching things out a bit ) they weren't romantically involved with each other.

The only reason some people and the writers bring their TOS scenes in the topic is because while their relationship is canon only in this reality, unlike what some fans say, it isn't completely baseless for the TOS canon and it's believable that the writers took inspiration from their scenes from TOS.
Under different circumstances they could have been together and that's what the reboot writers explored (by making them meet each other earlier etc)

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
what's more logic for Spock? Alternative realities being different or concepts like "destiny"? because if you think that each reality is the same then it's destiny we're talking about here, the idea that no matter what you do you will always end up with the same identical result (already contradicted by the existence of a mirror universe where the characters were already different)
That is more or less like expecting him to believe in God.
I think that Spock won't even pay attention to whatever the other Spock had a relationship with Uhura (or other people) or not. It must be not so hard for him to figure out that the two realities are different and in fact he's the first one in the movie that realized that and acknowledged that his life won't be like Spock's prime one. In the scene that I posted previously he actually sounds like he's chastising Spock Prime for his flawed logic and really when you think about it Spock prime was more out of character in that movie than Quinto Spock. Doesn't mean that I don't like him or I can't justify him if I want but still he wasn't totally like TOS Spock either.
Of course he still took his advice, but I think that he did it because it was logical for him to do so after Spock prime essentially freed him from his duty toward his people (by volunteering as the one who would help them "you can stay in two places in the same moment").

but you would need a very active imagination to ascribe anything remotely near a previous love interest between Spock and Uhura from watching TOS .
they didn't. But it doesn't need a very active imagination to believe they could be attracted to each other

This comment from Peterdavid.net in particular has made some interesting points about TOS S/U:
http://www.peterdavid.net/2009/05/10...comment-127917
It goes well with what Nichelle Nichols also stated and the fact that Roddenberry had wanted to explore a S/U relationship but he never could.
In that, JJ is doing what the original writers weren't allowed to do at the time.


4. The actor who plays the young Spock came out as "fully gay" in 2011. So what?..perhaps,Sulu/George Takei "married some guy in the 2000's", but for an audience paying/watching something and hoping to be entertained,all the close up shots of young spock n young uhura rotated to look more horizontal mambo are kinda wasted .

...
Either way I cant see how the Spock/Uhura relationship can be continued.
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic


Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Soldier wrote: View Post
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic
Not homophobic, necessarily, but silly.

I mean, it's not like Zachary Quinto is actually half-Vulcan or has pointed ears either. He's an actor playing a role. In this case, a green-blooded, heterosexual Vulcan!

We're talking about Spock and Uhura here, not Quinto and Saldana.


serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Has it ever occurred to anyone the Spock will outlive Uhura...Spock can live up to 200 years...Uhura would be lucky to get to a 100.

so it is not really happily ever after....sigh
he's bound to tragedy, he will always outlive the ones that he loves (unless he dies in a mission) look at Spock Prime. One more reason to live the moment... carpe diem
It could be interesting (if the writers really do want to play with the differences between realities) if S/U will have a son who in the future will be in starfleet too.
(Spock Prime had a son in one of the novels but they aren't canon)
(though some people can bet that Spock and Uhura's son is Tuvok )
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Old September 30 2012, 01:08 PM   #192
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I didn't read your post at first and, having had the time to do so now, there are so many things I could respond to, but I'll just pick a choice few like the comment above.

That's just it, UFO. That character doesn't exist in this timeline. And as you yourself pointed out, when an older Spock (i.e. "that character") from the original timeline appears in this film, even the Prime Spock that you knew had changed some because of time and circumstance. Change a part of life.

Having the freedom to explore what Spock (and others) would have been like if certain events, or what have you, changed was the whole point of a "reboot." You're going to get *some* of what you knew from this character previously, but not everything. You appear to be saying that you understand this, but then you'll say something else that proves that you don't, at least not completely.
Thanks for your response Spock/Uhura Fan. I appreciate why you think I donít get that change is inevitable, but I feel its just a matter of how much change is believable and there is of course my "bias" as to whether a relationship between Spock and Uhura will undermine what I value about the Spock character. I have nothing against Uhura in either universe with respect to who she should go out with, apart from those two considerations.
 
I understand people are set in their ways Ö
No. Itís more that there are a few undervalued things in Star Trek that I would prefer werenít on the endangered list. Too late now I suppose.
 
I can understand expecting the same thing you saw before if you just walked into the movie blind, but after watching it and seeing that the creators of this new "version" of Star Trek had something different in mind, to just keep "expecting" them to do the same thing is beyond me.
I consider some changes to be more likely than others. For example, Spockís Vulcan indoctrination is going to be pretty similar in each universe, as is his motherís influence if significant. I canít see that varying much and neither, from what we see in the film, do the writers. "Everything" we know about him seems to develop "normally", such as his being bullied in childhood and his deciding to joint Starfleet. Itís a bit like a fish being able to swim left or right but not being able to walk down Main Street, even in a new universe (most likely). Yes, there are stories about what Roddenberry may have planned for his future or said about his past but that doesnít fit with TOS very well as it stands and canít be considered anyway.
 
Now the destruction of Vulcan might be a sufficiently big factor to, over time, change Spockís "programming" but they may have been better to wait until this next movie in that case. Of course I still wouldnít like it, But it might be more believable.
 
Ö but don't Vulcans have telepathic connections to those they are close to?
Not to my knowledge, which also isnít as good as others here. I only recall that business about feeling the deaths of 400 Vulcans on another star ship.
 
You mentioned something about him being more "Vulcanized" because he's younger and spent most of his life with them, but 1) he'd been around humans for a few years when we were introduced the the "new Spock" and 2) More importantly, when he left the VSA after rejecting them, he didn't seem too keen on maintaining a purely Vulcan lifestyle as he headed to Earth to join Starfleet and the "humans."
True, but that all happened in TOS or we have no reason to think it didn't. Certainly what we do see agrees largely with what we know. But if Vulcan emotional control is to work, it has to be second nature. Not something you turn on and off. So how and why did he go from Vulcan to non-Vulcan and later (in the prime universe anyway) back again? I can understand him taking decades to loosen up but all this switching around like putting on different pairs of pants doesnít work for me.

I just donít agree itís a good idea to do that on this occasion.
I guess this is the crux of where we disagree because that precisly was the idea when they made a reboot in an alternate timeline, and consequently it is the fact. It's not my idea, good or bad (I think it's great), but rather what was in the film.
OK, let me rephrase that: I donít agree that it was a good idea to do that on this occasion.
 
 
Malaika wrote: View Post
I was going by what we have every reason to expect of the Spock character from what we see in TOS. I have explained my reasons for preferring Spock to remain true to that character...
Spock's character according to YOU that is the side of him that you choose to consider "all of him" but there are examples about TOS Spock that contradict your opinion or, more correctly, make it just your personal interpretation that isn't more valid than others or mine.
Except that my view has a great deal more evidence in its favour and even the "no moon" scene for example, makes it clear Spock has little concept of human love and romance. I havenít "examined" them but its seems like the rest are not exactly conclusive. As I said, we are working on probabilities here.
 
He wasn't a "monk" in the canon. He had plenty of love interest and he was obviously attracted to women
Can you give me an example when he wasn't under some external influence (something you have a problem with when it comes to Scotty and Uhura so I'm sure you want to include such here).

I don't believe in destiny. I do think that we have definite personality traits but we also are what life makes us. If alternative realities exist I'm sure that I'm not totally the same person in all of them if different events had happened to me in those other realities.
I agree, but this new reality isn't one selected at random and as mentioned there are indications nuSpock's upbringing is very similar. The over riding factor being his Vulcan conditioning in both in my view.

I don't know what movie you watched but in the one that I watched and the script that I have read Spock does have a girlfriend. So, I guess, he had been "available" to her at one point and chose to have a relationship with this woman. Unless you think that Uhura forced him or did everything by herself (that is contradicted by the script and the writers that state the fact that they're in love and that she's his girlfriend. In the turbolift scene he did allow her to kiss him for this reason and he reciprocated the kiss. In the transport pad scene he was the one that initiated the kiss.
Mere existence is not enough to ensure that what exists makes sense. Which is what we are talking about here.

Malaika wrote: View Post
But anyway my problem with Scotty/Uhura had everything to do with it coming out from nowhere since she had never showed any interest in him in TOS and the way it was developed (or better say not developed) with Syboc and all (forced, ruined by some outside influence). The fact that they also were old people is the last of my concerns and would be even less if their relationship had been hinted to in TOS.
But it is a concern? I was wondering if I had misjudged you on this point and perhaps should apologise but you are not making it easy to decide. Of course we are all probably a bit ageists at times.

Malaika wrote: View Post
dear lord I'm doing it since the beginning of this Spock/Uhura vs Scotty/Uhura silly discussion and in one of her replies Spock/Uhura's fan seems to get from your posts (if i'm not mistaken) the same impression I got myself: your argument is contradictory.
No, you make a lot of accusations about people who have the gall to suggest the your hints are less impressive evidence than you believe they are, but I don't recall you demonstrating why that is a double standard (or how it could be). Seems like the sort of thing anyone trying to support their case would do.

A contradiction is not a double standard either. Its probably a misunderstanding or a mistake, as in this case, where I should have made it clear that the "past history" I was referring to only included the sort of hints you are relying on. My bad.

This definition may help: A double standard is the unjust application of different sets of principles for similar situations

Already we can see why I don't agree with your assertion. I believe that the situations arenít similar. Now I am not guilty of a double standard if my argument is based on that difference, even if you disagree that there is a difference.

What may make sense or not sense for YOU won't necessarily make sense or not make sense for ME or other people. But you seem to believe that your opinion that one relationship makes sense while the other does not is a fact.
No, these things aren't absolute but I have TOS and the reasoning I have put forward above and in other posts to put against Spock/Uhura. You're main objection to Scotty/Uhura seems to be that someone should have told you about it ahead of time! Well, you also say you reject it because its too late and in bad taste. But "in universe" people's situations can change (a point you are happy to accept about the Alt reality) so there no reason to expect previous indications of it.

One was necessary while the other is not and we shouldn't support it or we just fall in some marketing trap the writers created for us. That is more or less similar to the whole "pandering to the female fanbase" argument already made here, because you know women only care about romance no matter if it makes sense of not or ruins amazing characters.
Not a marketing trap. That might get people to watch it but doesnít explain why they actually like it. I donít think it is unreasonable to suggest that if we like something, we will be less willing to object to issues we might have otherwise had a problem with. Just human nature really.

Scotty/Uhura: you're the one that chose to reply to that and include them in your argument and whatever you realize it or not it made your argument double standard.

Then I would be grateful if you could enlighten me as to exactly how I achieved that, bearing in mind the definition I gave above of course. Because to me it seems like I am just pointing out the problems with you case, which seems perfectly legitimate.

The point: Like you can find Scotty/Uhura believable in the prime universe, other people may find the Spock/Uhura thing believable in AOS and possible in TOS (had the circumstances been different. That is what JJ is saying with his movie). And yet you seem to believe that Spock and Uhura fall under a different standard and different set of rules to follow and what you are free to do with Scotty/Uhura others can't do with Spock/Uhura even though they're actually canon in this verse and they, after all, actually had some hint of attraction even in TOS unlike Scotty/Uhura.
Iím allowed to disagree with Mr JJ or anyone else come to that. It is not "that Spock and Uhura fall under a different standard and different set of rules", itís that I believe the situation is different and therefore the standards donít apply. And once again that is not invalidated just because others disagree. Let me know if you have difficulty seeing that point.

No one says that you have to like it or it has to make sense for you but it seems to make sense for nu!Spock and the ST2009 writers, you know.
NuSpock isnít real and the writers might be wrong.

It seems to me that you judge nu!Spock according to what you think he should feel or do according to you and how you want him to be rather than what the movie actually presented and what the fictional character actually feels.
Thatís a strange thing to say. Of course I am. Or more correctly I am saying I think they got it wrong. There is no secret about that. We wouldnít be discussing this if I agreed with what we saw on screen. However this is no different to my disagreement about other parts of the movie such as the likelihood of nuKirk finding Prime Spock in cave etc. Are you seriously suggesting no one is allowed to object to anything they see in any movie because, if it is in the script and on screen, it automatically makes sense!?
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Old September 30 2012, 02:45 PM   #193
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

teacake wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasn’t gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I don’t encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.
So's sepsis but damn I wash out my wounds.


Some of the comments here remind me of a letter sent to DC Comics back in the eighties about Scott and Uhura from The Final Frontier.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:04 PM   #194
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

BillJ wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasnít gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I donít encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.
So's sepsis but damn I wash out my wounds.


Some of the comments here remind me of a letter sent to DC Comics back in the eighties about Scott and Uhura from The Final Frontier.

in all honesty I believe that this is one of the misconception that many gays have but the truth is that you cant compare been gay to been black or yellow or white.

When I said the most natural way what I meant is that you need a man and a woman to make babies and more importantly males and female are not the same. They are 2 half of 1 being. Colour is not subject to this but gender is.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:12 PM   #195
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

You can't change race. You can't change sexuality, either.
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Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
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love story, pairings, spock/uhura, star trek 2009

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