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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Angels Take Manhattan"
The girl who waited 100 64.52%
Something borrowed 35 22.58%
Average 10 6.45%
Is it bad that I really miss this? 3 1.94%
You're Scottish, fry something 7 4.52%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 30 2012, 03:48 AM   #76
Chris3123
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Did I miss an important step in the evolution of the Angels? Weren't they always made out of stone? Because the Statue of Liberty is made out of bronze...
The angels just sprayed the innards with pink slime and played some Jackie Wilson music, which allowed them to control Lady Liberty's movements with an NES Advantage controller.
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Old September 30 2012, 03:54 AM   #77
Alidar Jarok
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.
Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?
Except the part where they destroy the universe because of the paradox, I guess it isn't too bad.
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Old September 30 2012, 03:57 AM   #78
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's a predestination thing. You have to think of all the elements. They read it, which means someone had to write it. She had to write it because it happened and they need to recreate it. If she chose not to write it, the future wouldn't happen.
Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?
Except the part where they destroy the universe because of the paradox, I guess it isn't too bad.
Who decides which paradoxes destroy the universe and which don't? They used a paradox to stop the angels, but a paradox to avoid the situation all together would rip the universe in two?

I know one shouldn't look at time travel stories TOO closely, but still...
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Old September 30 2012, 04:01 AM   #79
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Granted, Doctor Who time travel rules are never consistent, but the one rule that always occurs is that it's bad to alter your own timeline. Here, they explicitly said that what Amy and Rory did could easily have destroyed New York city and that doing it a second time definitely would have. They "got lucky" that things worked out the first time. That's why you don't want to risk a second time (especially a bigger paradox).
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Old September 30 2012, 04:30 AM   #80
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Are we sure that Amy and Rory weren't locked in that Hotel?

One could argue that only one Angel survived and didn't have enough "angelpower" to angel their battery farm. but if they were all wounded instead of exterminated, then they could have gotten back to business soon enough.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:32 AM   #81
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Well, I found this to be a massively underwhelming episode in most regards. It just felt like none of it mattered or had any substance to it, because it was really only about the departure of the Ponds. All the stuff with Grayle, the actual scenes with the Angels, the dodgy explanations behind it all... It all came across as hand waving, filler content to pad the episode out until it reached the conclusion and got rid of Amy and Rory.

The Doctor was also one of the surplus to requirements elements, actually! What did he really do in this episode, besides sitting or standing about with his head in his hands, lamenting that he couldn't do anything? Given the outrageous and shameless cheating that Moffat did in last season's finale, it was a bit hard to swallow this sudden helplessness on his part. It all felt a bit 'These are the Voyages...' in terms of how the heroes apparently lost their usual resourcefulness, and just blundered about.

Like that ending scene in the graveyard. 'Hooray, we've won - we're all as happy as clams, ra ra ra! Oh, we're off to see the wizard...' Well, nice going there, heroes. Just assume you've won, don't bother to actually check or anything...
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Old September 30 2012, 04:32 AM   #82
Alidar Jarok
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Are we sure that Amy and Rory weren't locked in that Hotel?

One could argue that only one Angel survived and didn't have enough "angelpower" to angel their battery farm. but if they were all wounded instead of exterminated, then they could have gotten back to business soon enough.
At the end of the episode? It seems unlikely that River could have reached them and had them write an addendum if they were transported back to the hotel.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:40 AM   #83
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Are we sure that Amy and Rory weren't locked in that Hotel?

One could argue that only one Angel survived and didn't have enough "angelpower" to angel their battery farm. but if they were all wounded instead of exterminated, then they could have gotten back to business soon enough.
At the end of the episode? It seems unlikely that River could have reached them and had them write an addendum if they were transported back to the hotel.
Right. Since the Hotel vanished into a singularity of its own paradox, Amy and Rory were stranded in the past and left to their own devices in much the same way that the characters in "Blink" were.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:42 AM   #84
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

The best of the bunch this season. Damn near brought me to tears. It's kinda like Donna with this situation.

That being said, it could've been a two-parter to flesh out the story a bit.
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Old September 30 2012, 04:43 AM   #85
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Plus don't they say in the Addendum that they're having a fabulous time or something?
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Old September 30 2012, 05:08 AM   #86
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
So there's a building in New York full of Weeping Angels but if you make a paradox (if that's what it even as) in it it magically resolves everything except one in a graveyard.
Actually, it resolved everything. The gravestone is just separate from the stuff in that house (I don't even know how someone would get buried if they die in that house, since they seem to get trapped there).
I'm not talking about the gravestone, I'm talking about the Weeping Angel. All the ones in the building vanished and whatever was going on with the Statue of Liberty was resolved, but there was still a Weeping Angel clowning around in the graveyard.
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Old September 30 2012, 05:24 AM   #87
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Wonderful episode and an absolutely beautiful ending and farewell for Amy and Rory. Did a lot of us more or less predicted their fate? Yeah, but the way it was presented was still tear-jerking. Their mutual act to jump off the building to destroy the paradox ("To save you, I could do anything") was sweet and poignant. I will miss Rory and Amy dearly but I have a feeling they'll return in some for for the 50th anniversary (along everyone else AND the kitchen sink ).

The one thing I was disappointed about was we didn't get to see The Doctor telling Brian why Amy and Rory aren't coming back.

Did anyone notice the short preview for the Christmas episode? It was only a few shots of The Doctor, Oswald, and Richard E. Grant (looking rather Christopher Walken-like)?
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Old September 30 2012, 05:25 AM   #88
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

And here I thought that when a paradox was created, Reapers arrived and started eating everybody.
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Old September 30 2012, 06:40 AM   #89
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

teacake wrote: View Post
So who loved River's dress?
She was wearing a dress? I was too mesmerized by the cleavage to notice .

Great episode though it was quite predictable due to the presence of the Angels. But even if something it predictable it can still be effective if it's well done and causes you to feel something which it did. I didn't cry but I was on the verge f doing so.
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Last edited by Enterprise is Great; September 30 2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old September 30 2012, 06:48 AM   #90
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Really liked the episode, even though I kind of knew that was how we were going to say goodbye to Amy and Rory. I think the thing I liked the most was the showing that Amy and Rory really do love each other deeply and it brought that relationship full circle. I do wish we got a scene with Rory's father though because in hindsight to the episode, Rory's father was kind of a meaningless character, other than to basically state at the end of the last episode what was going to happen to them.

As for the Angels, I really liked they were brought back to what they were like in Blink. They were scary, menacing, and one of the best villians the show has created, as far as me watching anyway going back to the Eccleston year.

I'm looking forward to the new companion. Amy and Rory had thier fun, but it's time to bring on someone new. I actually don't think Amy was the best companion, but she was worthy of the ones I've seen here. I actually do feel bad for Martha though. She was companion in what many consider a forgettable season (Even though I liked season 3 and the Master Arc that ended it and maybe I'm wrong with it being forgettable) but she does seem to be the only one who got the best deal after her experience with the Doctor.

Rose had to build an entirely new life on a new world but she did get the Doctor, or at least a version of him. Donna had her brain scrambled that even an association with the Doctor means she might die. Amy and Rory are not living in the past and while they had each other, all thier friends and family are gone or either still children. Martha on the other hand, joined Unit, is still living, and still has her friends and family on present day earth. If we include Jack here, I guess he had it good too with Torchwood, but considering he can't die, maybe that's a curse in disguise.

If I were to rank the companions from favorite to least favorite:

Donna
Rory
Rose
Captain Jack
Amy
Martha

Hopefully I'm not forgetting any.
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