The Genesis planet... - Page 3

beamMe · September 28 2012, 04:16 PM

Therin of Andor wrote:

Admiral M wrote:

This could all be solved quite simply, if someone were to ask Harve Bennett or Nicholas Meyer, what their intentions were.

It's in the script!

RELIANT
The WHINE increases to fever pitch, then: she goes!

EXT. MUTARA NEBULA - MASTER EFFECT
As Reliant goes, so goes the nebula. The "Genesis Effect" WE SAW in its earliest experiments, now seems familiar on a gigantic, cosmic scale.

The blinding flash at first, followed by the same tumbling turbulence of the miniature test. It is awesome.

231 INT. ENTERPRISE BRIDGE 231
The bridge doors open and Carol appears. Instinctively she draws near her son. Finally, Kirk turns, sees Carol --

KIRK
Reduce speed. My God, Carol. Look at it.

ON SCREEN and INTERCUT -- GENESIS TUMBLES and starts evolving. A moment in history.

Later:

Then:

EXT. SPACE 246
The Enterprise passes the new planet in all its beauty.

The scene takes place "EXT. MUTARA NEBULA". "... a gigantic, cosmic scale." No mention of it involving Regula nor its space station.

The novelization makes it even more explicit.

The script says this about the Genesis Cave and its light source:

A huge cavern. Kirk is actually standing at the middle of it. Space extends vastly above and below his point of view. Like Eden, lush growth everywhere, water- falls, and a cobalt blue sky high, high above where a round orb glows sending light and warmth downward.

Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.

Mr Silver · September 28 2012, 06:43 PM

beamMe wrote:

Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.

If that's how you want to go about Star Trek, that's your prerogative.

It's really up to the individual fan, to decide what they consider part of their personal canon or continuity.

Jimi_James · September 28 2012, 06:49 PM

We really shouldn't be talking about this. Genesis is planet forbidden!

beamMe · September 28 2012, 07:02 PM

Admiral M wrote:

beamMe wrote:

Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.

If that's how you want to go about Star Trek, that's your prerogative.

Thanks, how magnanimous of you.

Admiral M wrote:

It's really up to the individual fan, to decide what they consider part of their personal canon or continuity.

Yeah, whatever. Personally, I'm more interested in the "official" canon. And that leaves the Regula/Genesis-thing pretty vague.

Therin of Andor · September 29 2012, 12:26 AM

beamMe wrote:

Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.

I was answering Admiral M's suggestion that we needed to ask Bennett or Meyer for an explanation, when their intentions are already known. In the script.

I guess Uhura was never born. We never saw her birth either. It never happened.

beamMe · September 29 2012, 12:46 AM

Therin of Andor wrote:

beamMe wrote:

Who cares what's in the script or the novelization. If it's not shown or stated on-screen it didn't happen.

I was answering Admiral M's suggestion that we needed to ask Bennett or Meyer for an explanation, when their intentions are already known. In the script.

I guess Uhura was never born. We never saw her birth either. It never happened.

The filmmaker's intentions are completely meaningless if they don't translate onto the film.
If you have to read up on the intention or meaning of a film-scene then the film-makers have failed.

What the movie shows us about the creation of Genesis (that's redundant, isn't it

) isn't quite clear; it could have been formed from the matter in the Mutara nebula (unlikely since it was scattered by the explosion) or it could be the transformed Regula.

Your comment about Uhura doesn't make any sense, btw.

Therin of Andor · September 29 2012, 02:07 AM

beamMe wrote:

it could have been formed from the matter in the Mutara nebula (unlikely since it was scattered by the explosion) or it could be the transformed Regula.

In that case, why does anyone ask any of these questions if, by your strict definition of the rules, they cannot be answered.

Your comment about Uhura doesn't make any sense, btw.

Did we witness her birth on screen, or did dialogue reference it? How do we know it happened?

Tiberius · September 29 2012, 05:05 AM

The script makes it quite clear that it is a new world, not a pre-existing one.

Maurice · September 29 2012, 05:19 AM

It's clear that the intent was that the planet formed where the Reliant exploded. If it was meant to have been Regula, they'd have shown it.

FKnight · September 29 2012, 07:40 AM

Therin of Andor wrote:

I wonder if the Romulans would use the genesis device to create a new Romulus elsewhere....?

Why go to the effort? They are an Empire and presumably have a few conquered worlds to their name.

Quite true, but I think there's a reasonable probability, if the Romulans had their hands on such technology, that they would find the perfect planetoid, in the perfect location, and refine the Genesis device to their specifications, and create a new, as near perfect as you can get Romulus to rule the Empire from. That's totally within their personality as a species, IMO.

Therin of Andor · September 29 2012, 10:18 AM

Tiberius wrote:

The script makes it quite clear that it is a new world, not a pre-existing one.

Indeed. The piece beamMe dropped out of the middle of my quotes was where Saavik says:

SAAVIK'S VOICE
(intercom)
Admiral, you've got to see this! There's new life -- a whole new world, a Genesis world -- !

But Kirk is past hearing or caring. He is huddled up against the glass, destroyed. Bones looks on, helpless.

DISSOLVE TO:
237 EXT. SPACE
A spectacular look at Carol's planet being born!

Maurice wrote:

It's clear that the intent was that the planet formed where the Reliant exploded. If it was meant to have been Regula, they'd have shown it.

Exactly, including the space lab being wrenched from orbit and dissolved.

beamMe · September 29 2012, 10:33 AM

Therin of Andor wrote:

beamMe wrote:

it could have been formed from the matter in the Mutara nebula (unlikely since it was scattered by the explosion) or it could be the transformed Regula.

In that case, why does anyone ask any of these questions if, by your strict definition of the rules, they cannot be answered.

Yeah, since the movie didn't give us a definite answer.
Both interpretations are possible.
I just find one more likely than the other.

Therin of Andor wrote:

Your comment about Uhura doesn't make any sense, btw.

Did we witness her birth on screen, or did dialogue reference it? How do we know it happened?

Don't act stupid.
We know it happened. She is there. The how on the other hand (and this all being sci-fi) ...

Therin of Andor wrote:

Tiberius wrote:

The script makes it quite clear that it is a new world, not a pre-existing one.

Indeed. The piece beamMe dropped out of the middle of my quotes was where Saavik says:

SAAVIK'S VOICE
(intercom)
Admiral, you've got to see this! There's new life -- a whole new world, a Genesis world -- !

But Kirk is past hearing or caring. He is huddled up against the glass, destroyed. Bones looks on, helpless.

DISSOLVE TO:
237 EXT. SPACE
A spectacular look at Carol's planet being born!

Maurice wrote:

It's clear that the intent was that the planet formed where the Reliant exploded. If it was meant to have been Regula, they'd have shown it.

Exactly, including the space lab being wrenched from orbit and dissolved.

Even those lines are open to interpretation.

Tiberius · September 30 2012, 12:47 AM

How so?

"A new world being born" is quite clear.

beamMe · September 30 2012, 01:12 AM

Tiberius wrote:

How so?

"A new world being born" is quite clear.

So, Conan Doyle wrote about a different planet than the Earth in his The Lost World?

Tiberius · September 30 2012, 05:41 AM

"The Lost World" is an example of where "world" has a meaning other than "planet."

The ST2 script specifically says "planet". I'm not aware that "planet" has a meaning other than "Big round thing that orbits a star."

September 28 2012, 06:49 PM	#33
Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Location: Gettin' Lucky in Kentucky	Re: The Genesis planet... We really shouldn't be talking about this. Genesis is planet forbidden! __________________ “I was here,” says Man. “Prove it,” says the Universe.” Method of Life, a post apocalyptic sci-fi ebook available on Amazon.

September 29 2012, 05:05 AM	#38
Tiberius Commodore	Re: The Genesis planet... The script makes it quite clear that it is a new world, not a pre-existing one. __________________ The Best of Both Worlds eBook \| Every episode of Trek in viewing order Tiberius

September 29 2012, 05:19 AM	#39
Maurice Rear Admiral Location: Maurice in San Francisco	Re: The Genesis planet... It's clear that the intent was that the planet formed where the Reliant exploded. If it was meant to have been Regula, they'd have shown it. __________________ * * * "Star Trek…at times sparkled with true ingenuity, and pure science fiction approaches, and at other times was more carnival like, and very much more the creature of television than the creature of a legitimate literary form." —Rod Serling, 1970"

September 30 2012, 12:47 AM	#43
Tiberius Commodore	Re: The Genesis planet... How so? "A new world being born" is quite clear. __________________ The Best of Both Worlds eBook \| Every episode of Trek in viewing order Tiberius

September 30 2012, 05:41 AM	#45
Tiberius Commodore	Re: The Genesis planet... "The Lost World" is an example of where "world" has a meaning other than "planet." The ST2 script specifically says "planet". I'm not aware that "planet" has a meaning other than "Big round thing that orbits a star." __________________ The Best of Both Worlds eBook \| Every episode of Trek in viewing order Tiberius

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